5 ms·

Would you mind providing a source for 2)? In my experience you couldn't be more wrong.

edblarney 10y ago
Talk to an older Swede. If you're young, and talk mostly to young Swedes, it's a different story. Actually, one of the reasons that this may be 'contentious' is because of 'startup culture'. When I say 'business' - you might be thinking 'startup'. Surely - it's 'cool' among young people to be at a startup, doing some cool thing like 'games' or 'music'. But the attitude towards most business, by that I mean what is really 99% of the private economy is still pernicious. Cultural example - do you know the film 'Girl with the Dragon Tattoo' - the Swedish version? The film is about the follies and evil of an old Swedish noble/industrial family. In the film they are all portrayed as bad, they hate each other, they are greedy, one is a rapist/murderer. Arguably this could be 'populist' anywhere, but it's I think anecdotally relevant for a Nordic country. Across Europe 'business' remember, is the 'bourgeoisie' - i.e. one of the 'offending' classes of 'the revolution'. The view that 'rich people' are basically entirely get their wealth from the economic enslavement of the 'working people' is a cultural epitaph there - and across Europe, to varying degrees. The idea that people can 'create things of value' an 'exchange them' and 'create jobs' - was not widely held. Wealth was a 'zero sum game' - some had it, other did not and that was it. As further indirect support, I'll offer the rise of the Social Democrats during the early 20th century, who had enormous power (near total) and influence for decades - and become so entrenched that the were almost de-facto the nature of Swedish/Nordic (and to some extent European) political culture. This did not happen quite as much in the UK, and certainly not in Canada, Australia or the USA. During the 1980's-1990's they underwent a series of reforms to undo some of the 'socialization of the economy' (same time as Thatcher, Reagan). Same thing happened in Germany in the 1990's, but on different terms. Anyhow - 'startups among young people' - surely. And surely nowadays the government 'gets' that startups are 'good'. But the cultural aversion to 'big business', I believe, still exists if you factor in all generations, government, institutions etc...
- kalleboo 10y ago
  You started talking about "anti-business and anti-entrepreneurial", now you moved the goalposts to "big business". Yes Swedes don't worship people like Trump like Americans do. But people going into business (hairdressers, contract work, running a supermarket, startups) is very different.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    I didn't say 'big business' - I referred to 'anything that was not a cool startup'.
    - TillE 10y ago
      > I didn't say 'big business' > But the cultural aversion to 'big business' C'mon dude.
    - edblarney 10y ago
      ? That referred to 'big business' at one point, that does not imply my point was entirely about big business. In fact, it's obviously not.
- laughingman123 10y ago
  Yeah right, let's all ignore the swedes talking about their own nation and listen to actual facts
  - edblarney 10y ago
    Possibly: young Swedes on HN talking about young cool startup culture vs. someone who has lived around the world, in many countries (i.e. strong comparative basis), including a fair bit of exposure to Scandinavia, and worked for the European Government (European Investment Bank) towards establishing comparative basis for entrepreneurial and business clusters in USA and EU. Someone who has not lived outside of Sweden does not know what how their culture compares relative to others. General attitudes towards business in Sweden are far, far different than they are in North America, and it's a cultural/historical issue - a point by the way, which is not very contentious, despite how it may seem here on HN.

Talk to an older Swede. If you're young, and talk mostly to young Swedes, it's a different story. Actually, one of the reasons that this may be 'contentious' is because of 'startup culture'. When I say 'business' - you might be thinking 'startup'. Surely - it's 'cool' among young people to be at a startup, doing some cool thing like 'games' or 'music'. But the attitude towards most business, by that I mean what is really 99% of the private economy is still pernicious. Cultural example - do you know the film 'Girl with the Dragon Tattoo' - the Swedish version? The film is about the follies and evil of an old Swedish noble/industrial family. In the film they are all portrayed as bad, they hate each other, they are greedy, one is a rapist/murderer. Arguably this could be 'populist' anywhere, but it's I think anecdotally relevant for a Nordic country. Across Europe 'business' remember, is the 'bourgeoisie' - i.e. one of the 'offending' classes of 'the revolution'. The view that 'rich people' are basically entirely get their wealth from the economic enslavement of the 'working people' is a cultural epitaph there - and across Europe, to varying degrees. The idea that people can 'create things of value' an 'exchange them' and 'create jobs' - was not widely held. Wealth was a 'zero sum game' - some had it, other did not and that was it. As further indirect support, I'll offer the rise of the Social Democrats during the early 20th century, who had enormous power (near total) and influence for decades - and become so entrenched that the were almost de-facto the nature of Swedish/Nordic (and to some extent European) political culture. This did not happen quite as much in the UK, and certainly not in Canada, Australia or the USA. During the 1980's-1990's they underwent a series of reforms to undo some of the 'socialization of the economy' (same time as Thatcher, Reagan). Same thing happened in Germany in the 1990's, but on different terms. Anyhow - 'startups among young people' - surely. And surely nowadays the government 'gets' that startups are 'good'. But the cultural aversion to 'big business', I believe, still exists if you factor in all generations, government, institutions etc...

kalleboo 10y ago
You started talking about "anti-business and anti-entrepreneurial", now you moved the goalposts to "big business". Yes Swedes don't worship people like Trump like Americans do. But people going into business (hairdressers, contract work, running a supermarket, startups) is very different.
- edblarney 10y ago
  I didn't say 'big business' - I referred to 'anything that was not a cool startup'.
  - TillE 10y ago
    > I didn't say 'big business' > But the cultural aversion to 'big business' C'mon dude.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    ? That referred to 'big business' at one point, that does not imply my point was entirely about big business. In fact, it's obviously not.
laughingman123 10y ago
Yeah right, let's all ignore the swedes talking about their own nation and listen to actual facts
- edblarney 10y ago
  Possibly: young Swedes on HN talking about young cool startup culture vs. someone who has lived around the world, in many countries (i.e. strong comparative basis), including a fair bit of exposure to Scandinavia, and worked for the European Government (European Investment Bank) towards establishing comparative basis for entrepreneurial and business clusters in USA and EU. Someone who has not lived outside of Sweden does not know what how their culture compares relative to others. General attitudes towards business in Sweden are far, far different than they are in North America, and it's a cultural/historical issue - a point by the way, which is not very contentious, despite how it may seem here on HN.