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>>As long as taxation is practiced the way it is here in the US (eg, enforced at the end of a gun barrel) it's theft How so? The government is collecting the m

>>As long as taxation is practiced the way it is here in the US (eg, enforced at the end of a gun barrel) it's theft How so? The government is collecting the money you owe them. And you owe them money because every single day you use and benefit from things the government has funded, such as as infrastructure, police protection, fire protection, military protection and much, much more. It's true that there is no way to "opt-out" of those things but that's simply because it would be impossible to create a system where people can do so that is not massively and incredibly complex. Besides, do you really want to live in a world where your house burns down because your neighbor has "opted out" of fire protection and their house fire spread to yours?

wav-part 10y ago
Then give me exact amount I owe ? Why does it have anything to do with my Income ? Do you pay 5% for your iPhone ? Why is police protection any different ? Why am I not allowed to opt-out of it ? Admit it. Its socially-excepted extortion from successful where people always increasing welfare spending. I dont know why anyone have to demonize anyone. People are looking after their own self-interest. And successful after their own by evading taxes.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  You can't pay an exact amount because we literally have no way to calculate such an amount. How do you calculate usage for police, fire, military protection? How do you calculate the monetary value of being surrounded by educated people (which is what part of your taxes pay for)? You can't. We do have usage-based taxes for things where we can calculate the usage relatively easily, such as tolls for roads. A lot of other things however have to come from your income, because that's the easiest method that, believe it or not, requires the least bureaucracy. P.S. You can't opt out of police protection because... how would that work exactly?
lacampbell 10y ago
How so? The government is collecting the money you owe them. And you owe them money because every single day you use and benefit from things the government has funded, such as as infrastructure, police protection, fire protection, military protection and much, much more. Much much more... like launching invasions on other countries, giving policemen paid leave after committing brutalities, bailing out mega corporations, providing jobs it's near impossible to be fired from with no incentive for hard work... The state is structured in such a way that you can't help but use what they provide. That doesn't constitute any kind of consent. If a cartel occupies your area, demands protection money, and provides some services - they are still a cartel.

wav-part 10y ago

Then give me exact amount I owe ? Why does it have anything to do with my Income ? Do you pay 5% for your iPhone ? Why is police protection any different ? Why am I not allowed to opt-out of it ? Admit it. Its socially-excepted extortion from successful where people always increasing welfare spending. I dont know why anyone have to demonize anyone. People are looking after their own self-interest. And successful after their own by evading taxes.

enraged_camel 10y ago
You can't pay an exact amount because we literally have no way to calculate such an amount. How do you calculate usage for police, fire, military protection? How do you calculate the monetary value of being surrounded by educated people (which is what part of your taxes pay for)? You can't. We do have usage-based taxes for things where we can calculate the usage relatively easily, such as tolls for roads. A lot of other things however have to come from your income, because that's the easiest method that, believe it or not, requires the least bureaucracy. P.S. You can't opt out of police protection because... how would that work exactly?

lacampbell 10y ago

How so? The government is collecting the money you owe them. And you owe them money because every single day you use and benefit from things the government has funded, such as as infrastructure, police protection, fire protection, military protection and much, much more. Much much more... like launching invasions on other countries, giving policemen paid leave after committing brutalities, bailing out mega corporations, providing jobs it's near impossible to be fired from with no incentive for hard work... The state is structured in such a way that you can't help but use what they provide. That doesn't constitute any kind of consent. If a cartel occupies your area, demands protection money, and provides some services - they are still a cartel.