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So your main argument is privacy, not letting Google collect users' data, but then consider that most of your users are probably using Chrome, everything they t

So your main argument is privacy, not letting Google collect users' data, but then consider that most of your users are probably using Chrome, everything they type in the URL box is sent to Google (for autocompletion) anyway. Is looking at some comics website even a privacy problem? Let's say google finds out your user X looks at your website. What possible damage can they do? Sell it to the advertisers so they can target X with some comics ad? If you ran a medical site, I would get it. Then you have to give up other cool things like Google Analytics. P.S. Some beautiful artwork on your site.

zitterbewegung 10y ago
It would depend on the site if most users use chrome. Also, you have to ask what kind of damage can be done in the future if the data is collected .
- olegkikin 10y ago
  That's what I'm asking. What kind of damage are you talking about exactly? I understand privacy concerns for medical, porn, political, gender rights websites. But a comics one?
  - zitterbewegung 10y ago
    Categorizing people based on what they read comes to mind .
    - olegkikin 10y ago
      Ok, so you categorized the people by whether they read this comic or not. What's the damage?
      - ryandrake 10y ago
        You've been categorized based on what you read.
      - a3n 10y ago
        The damage is that it contributes to normalizing this behavior in general.
  - brassic 10y ago
    I don't know if some present or future government could be offended by people reading this comic but it shouldn't be a question we even need to ask. If you want to live in a world where surveillance is not the default then the very least you can do is remove the tracking from your own websites. Thus I applaud the author of this website. And I'm really bored of the dullards who chip away at my freedom saying "but it's only a tiny transgression, what does it matter?"
    - olegkikin 10y ago
      > if some present or future government could be offended by people reading this comic That makes zero sense. Sorry, not buying that argument. I'm talking about this particular comic, not some political manifesto.
      - brassic 10y ago
        You haven't addressed the actual point. Which was that we shouldn't need to think about whether any particular comic is or is not of interest to people carrying out surveillance.
  - pselbert 10y ago
    This is a comic from a French author. Remember, the authors of a satirical comic in France were killed for their drawings only a few years back. Charlie Hedbo, http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883 http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883
creshal 10y ago
> but then consider that most of your users are probably using Chrome, everything they type in the URL box is sent to Google (for autocompletion) anyway. That's no reason to hand over Google the remainder of your users on a silver plate. (Especially not when you're not even getting paid for it.) > Is looking at some comics website even a privacy problem? Why is privacy something that needs to be justified? Why is exhibitionism supposed to be the default? > Then you have to give up other cool things like Google Analytics. "Being shiny" is not a justification for mass surveillance.
- ams6110 10y ago
  Autocompletion is one of the first things I disable in Chrome. Actually go into Advanced Settings and turn everything off that I can.
eveningcoffee 10y ago
What you have you done to fix this issue? How many people have you told to not use Chrome? Single sites are not the issue. The reach is. Alright, what's the matter if somebody knowns that I visit single comics site, right? Well, yeah, but if they also know that I also visit that other comics site, and that site too, and hmm, yes, that one too, then somebody starts getting the picture of me (disclaimer: this is not description of me).
- olegkikin 10y ago
  I don't think it's an issue. People who are paranoid about their privacy can use FF with Ghostery. Chrome is now the most popular browser, and for a reason. It's clear that most people value better browser experience over privacy fears. Plus Google says they don't sell user's data, they only use it to target their own ads: https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-work.html https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-work.html
  - eveningcoffee 10y ago
    Chrome has gained hold because too many ignorant developers have recommended it in their circles instead of FF. Google has used its services to aggressively push people towards Chrome with banners, degraded service etc. While the privacy issues have been actively downplayed by either ignorant bystanders or by astroturfing, I do not even think that is the biggest issue here. It is the monopoly on every level, that is my biggest concern.
flukus 10y ago
> So your main argument is privacy, not letting Google collect users' data, but then consider that most of your users are probably using Chrome, everything they type in the URL box is sent to Google (for autocompletion) anyway. I can't control information they willingly give away, but I don't have to give them additional data on the people who chose not to send everything to google. > Is looking at some comics website even a privacy problem? Let's say google finds out your user X looks at your website. What possible damage can they do? Sell it to the advertisers so they can target X with some comics ad? For me it's because it ruins the search results. Just because I looked at a comic doesn't mean I want them ranked higher in search results. I've found the less google knows about me the better the search works. > Then you have to give up other cool things like Google Analytics. Personally I'm about to give up on it anyway. Maybe if your a big site it's useful. I just want a list of page hits and the referrer url if possible. Analytics completely fails at this.
- mavhc 10y ago
  > For me it's because it ruins the search results. Just because I looked at a comic doesn't mean I want them ranked higher in search results. I've found the less google knows about me the better the search works. Isn't that what clicking the Globe icon next to the Cog icon does?
madeofpalk 10y ago
> but then consider that most of your users are probably using Chrome, everything they type in the URL box is sent to Google (for autocompletion) anyway. This is a conscious decision that the user has made to use Chrome and send their URLs to Google. When you visit a website you don't really get much of a say in this - you're up to the mercy of the website. To be clear, I use Chrome (and Gmail and Youtube and Google Search and everything else) and I'm not overly concerned by these concerns, but I can appreciate when webmasters are being responsible with the services that they subject their visitors to.
- hackuser 10y ago
  > This is a conscious decision that the user has made to use Chrome and send their URLs to Google Not to pick on this one point, but I want to add that I doubt many users are really conscious of it. People on HN are in a bubble; go to the local mall and ask people what they know. Ask them what a web browser is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ That's why people in the IT field have a responsibility to provide safe products to the public. It's like someone on Wall Street saying that a typical person is making a 'conscious decision' to accept all the complex risks of a sophisticated financial instrument, or that I'm making a 'conscious decision' to accept all the risks of an airplane when I get on it - I have little idea how the plane works; it's up to the manufacturer, airline and goverment to ensure it's safe.
hackuser 10y ago
> Is looking at some comics website even a privacy problem? Let's say google finds out your user X looks at your website. What possible damage can they do? What if they look at something politically unpopular, something that favors unpopular group or ideas? Those can be in comics. How about socially embarrassing things? They also determine you are in a certain place at a certain time. It is standard practice for governments to use those things to persecute people; there is no reason to think it will suddenly cease. I'm talking about western governments too - the U.S. government tried to embarrass and blackmail Martin Luther King; arguably it interfered in the recent election. Is there a reason governments would have changed?
- olegkikin 10y ago
  I'm talking specifically about this particular comic website. Yes, I fully understand the need for privacy when it comes to political and other social issues.
rossy 10y ago
> Is looking at some comics website even a privacy problem? I don't think it matters what the website is. Privacy should be the default. The idea that popular CDNs could passively gather a list of websites I visit is disturbing to me, even if all the sites on that list happen to be mundane. That information could still be used to build an advertising or personality profile on me. It's even more disturbing that leaking user information is commonplace on the web and most web devs don't give user privacy a second thought, though it's nice to see this one does.
cdubzzz 10y ago
> Then you have to give up other cool things like Google Analytics. Alternatives do exist. If you want advanced tools similar to GA, a local Piwik[0] install will do the job. For much more basic options, there are lots of log processing programs available, I have recently tried and liked GoAccess[1]. [0] https://piwik.org/ https://piwik.org/ [1] https://www.goaccess.io/ https://www.goaccess.io/
majewsky 10y ago
> Then you have to give up other cool things like Google Analytics. Honest question: What is the benefit of Google Analytics? Can someone share a story where they got actionable insight out of it? (Context: Being very concerned with privacy, I would never for the live of myself install any analytics on my sites. In fact, I have even disabled the nginx access.log.)
- shortformblog 10y ago
  Knowing who's sharing your content, your real-time visitors, and how long they stay on your website is incredibly actionable stuff. It tells you whether you're creating stuff that has a long-term draw, it tells you about the nature of who links your pages, and it tells you whether one layout or piece of content works better than another. (And you know when a term trends on Google.) You can change your tactics based on your traffic. When your goal is to attract an audience, that's just standard boilerplate stuff as far as actionable insight goes. Your privacy concerns are legitimate, but it's hard to consider any of these issues from a black box. You need data—and Google Analytics is the most common way to get that data.

zitterbewegung 10y ago

It would depend on the site if most users use chrome. Also, you have to ask what kind of damage can be done in the future if the data is collected .

olegkikin 10y ago
That's what I'm asking. What kind of damage are you talking about exactly? I understand privacy concerns for medical, porn, political, gender rights websites. But a comics one?
- zitterbewegung 10y ago
  Categorizing people based on what they read comes to mind .
  - olegkikin 10y ago
    Ok, so you categorized the people by whether they read this comic or not. What's the damage?
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      You've been categorized based on what you read.
    - a3n 10y ago
      The damage is that it contributes to normalizing this behavior in general.
- brassic 10y ago
  I don't know if some present or future government could be offended by people reading this comic but it shouldn't be a question we even need to ask. If you want to live in a world where surveillance is not the default then the very least you can do is remove the tracking from your own websites. Thus I applaud the author of this website. And I'm really bored of the dullards who chip away at my freedom saying "but it's only a tiny transgression, what does it matter?"
  - olegkikin 10y ago
    > if some present or future government could be offended by people reading this comic That makes zero sense. Sorry, not buying that argument. I'm talking about this particular comic, not some political manifesto.
    - brassic 10y ago
      You haven't addressed the actual point. Which was that we shouldn't need to think about whether any particular comic is or is not of interest to people carrying out surveillance.
- pselbert 10y ago
  This is a comic from a French author. Remember, the authors of a satirical comic in France were killed for their drawings only a few years back. Charlie Hedbo, http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883 http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883

creshal 10y ago

> but then consider that most of your users are probably using Chrome, everything they type in the URL box is sent to Google (for autocompletion) anyway. That's no reason to hand over Google the remainder of your users on a silver plate. (Especially not when you're not even getting paid for it.) > Is looking at some comics website even a privacy problem? Why is privacy something that needs to be justified? Why is exhibitionism supposed to be the default? > Then you have to give up other cool things like Google Analytics. "Being shiny" is not a justification for mass surveillance.

ams6110 10y ago
Autocompletion is one of the first things I disable in Chrome. Actually go into Advanced Settings and turn everything off that I can.

eveningcoffee 10y ago

What you have you done to fix this issue? How many people have you told to not use Chrome? Single sites are not the issue. The reach is. Alright, what's the matter if somebody knowns that I visit single comics site, right? Well, yeah, but if they also know that I also visit that other comics site, and that site too, and hmm, yes, that one too, then somebody starts getting the picture of me (disclaimer: this is not description of me).

olegkikin 10y ago
I don't think it's an issue. People who are paranoid about their privacy can use FF with Ghostery. Chrome is now the most popular browser, and for a reason. It's clear that most people value better browser experience over privacy fears. Plus Google says they don't sell user's data, they only use it to target their own ads: https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-work.html https://privacy.google.com/how-ads-work.html
- eveningcoffee 10y ago
  Chrome has gained hold because too many ignorant developers have recommended it in their circles instead of FF. Google has used its services to aggressively push people towards Chrome with banners, degraded service etc. While the privacy issues have been actively downplayed by either ignorant bystanders or by astroturfing, I do not even think that is the biggest issue here. It is the monopoly on every level, that is my biggest concern.

flukus 10y ago

> So your main argument is privacy, not letting Google collect users' data, but then consider that most of your users are probably using Chrome, everything they type in the URL box is sent to Google (for autocompletion) anyway. I can't control information they willingly give away, but I don't have to give them additional data on the people who chose not to send everything to google. > Is looking at some comics website even a privacy problem? Let's say google finds out your user X looks at your website. What possible damage can they do? Sell it to the advertisers so they can target X with some comics ad? For me it's because it ruins the search results. Just because I looked at a comic doesn't mean I want them ranked higher in search results. I've found the less google knows about me the better the search works. > Then you have to give up other cool things like Google Analytics. Personally I'm about to give up on it anyway. Maybe if your a big site it's useful. I just want a list of page hits and the referrer url if possible. Analytics completely fails at this.

mavhc 10y ago
> For me it's because it ruins the search results. Just because I looked at a comic doesn't mean I want them ranked higher in search results. I've found the less google knows about me the better the search works. Isn't that what clicking the Globe icon next to the Cog icon does?

madeofpalk 10y ago

> but then consider that most of your users are probably using Chrome, everything they type in the URL box is sent to Google (for autocompletion) anyway. This is a conscious decision that the user has made to use Chrome and send their URLs to Google. When you visit a website you don't really get much of a say in this - you're up to the mercy of the website. To be clear, I use Chrome (and Gmail and Youtube and Google Search and everything else) and I'm not overly concerned by these concerns, but I can appreciate when webmasters are being responsible with the services that they subject their visitors to.

hackuser 10y ago
> This is a conscious decision that the user has made to use Chrome and send their URLs to Google Not to pick on this one point, but I want to add that I doubt many users are really conscious of it. People on HN are in a bubble; go to the local mall and ask people what they know. Ask them what a web browser is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ That's why people in the IT field have a responsibility to provide safe products to the public. It's like someone on Wall Street saying that a typical person is making a 'conscious decision' to accept all the complex risks of a sophisticated financial instrument, or that I'm making a 'conscious decision' to accept all the risks of an airplane when I get on it - I have little idea how the plane works; it's up to the manufacturer, airline and goverment to ensure it's safe.

hackuser 10y ago

> Is looking at some comics website even a privacy problem? Let's say google finds out your user X looks at your website. What possible damage can they do? What if they look at something politically unpopular, something that favors unpopular group or ideas? Those can be in comics. How about socially embarrassing things? They also determine you are in a certain place at a certain time. It is standard practice for governments to use those things to persecute people; there is no reason to think it will suddenly cease. I'm talking about western governments too - the U.S. government tried to embarrass and blackmail Martin Luther King; arguably it interfered in the recent election. Is there a reason governments would have changed?

olegkikin 10y ago
I'm talking specifically about this particular comic website. Yes, I fully understand the need for privacy when it comes to political and other social issues.

rossy 10y ago

> Is looking at some comics website even a privacy problem? I don't think it matters what the website is. Privacy should be the default. The idea that popular CDNs could passively gather a list of websites I visit is disturbing to me, even if all the sites on that list happen to be mundane. That information could still be used to build an advertising or personality profile on me. It's even more disturbing that leaking user information is commonplace on the web and most web devs don't give user privacy a second thought, though it's nice to see this one does.

cdubzzz 10y ago

> Then you have to give up other cool things like Google Analytics. Alternatives do exist. If you want advanced tools similar to GA, a local Piwik[0] install will do the job. For much more basic options, there are lots of log processing programs available, I have recently tried and liked GoAccess[1]. [0] https://piwik.org/ https://piwik.org/ [1] https://www.goaccess.io/ https://www.goaccess.io/

majewsky 10y ago

> Then you have to give up other cool things like Google Analytics. Honest question: What is the benefit of Google Analytics? Can someone share a story where they got actionable insight out of it? (Context: Being very concerned with privacy, I would never for the live of myself install any analytics on my sites. In fact, I have even disabled the nginx access.log.)

shortformblog 10y ago
Knowing who's sharing your content, your real-time visitors, and how long they stay on your website is incredibly actionable stuff. It tells you whether you're creating stuff that has a long-term draw, it tells you about the nature of who links your pages, and it tells you whether one layout or piece of content works better than another. (And you know when a term trends on Google.) You can change your tactics based on your traffic. When your goal is to attract an audience, that's just standard boilerplate stuff as far as actionable insight goes. Your privacy concerns are legitimate, but it's hard to consider any of these issues from a black box. You need data—and Google Analytics is the most common way to get that data.