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Roger Ebert: 3D is a waste of a perfectly good dimension

89 points by hernan7 16y ago

yason 16y ago
Well, I think 3D has no place in the cinema. Films have been and films are an art form consisting of two-dimensional moving pictures. You can't change that, just as you can't say that a three-dimensional computer image is just a form of painting, just 3D. However, I think that the 3D is a new art form of its own, and it's only at its developing stage at the time. 3D may not be the right medium for what we consider good films as the 3D projections are not of the same art as traditional cinematic films. We will see what experiences the 3D turns out to produce, but it's probably going to find other uses than emulating films.
RevRal 16y ago
Once again, Herzog is my man: And my hero, Werner Herzog, is using 3-D to film prehistoric cave paintings in France, to better show off the concavities of the ancient caves. He told me that nothing will "approach" the audience, and his film will stay behind the plane of the screen. In other words, nothing will hurtle at the audience, and 3-D will allow us the illusion of being able to occupy the space with the paintings and look into them, experiencing them as a prehistoric artist standing in the cavern might have. That sounds awesome. Even though it was great fun watching Avatar in IMAX and in 3D, I can't help but cringe at all the wasted plastic used for the glasses.
- pavlov 16y ago
  There are several competing theatrical 3D systems: RealD, Dolby 3D, XpanD. Their technologies are completely different: respectively polarisation, wavelength multiplexing, shutter glasses. Only RealD uses cheap disposable glasses. In Dolby 3D and XpanD, the glasses are fairly expensive to produce, and thus are recycled (collected from the audience after the show, washed and redistributed). Americans seem to overwhelmingly prefer RealD, while Dolby 3D and XpanD dominate in Europe. Anyone surprised? :)
  - antirez 16y ago
    In Italy Dolby 3D is the only one I saw used. You get the glasses when entering inside the cinema, (they are washed with a special disinfectant in order to kill viruses and other bugs), and then after the show you give it back to the cinema guy. It's fun the first two times, just to try, but the plain cinema is much better, with better colors and a lot more relaxing. The good thing is that since the 3D mania there are no problems in fining available sits in the non-3D rooms.
- DannoHung 16y ago
  Really? They ask you to turn the RealD glasses back in at the theaters I go to. We don't actually have any options in the way of 3D movie technology.
macrael 16y ago
I have yet to go to a 3D movie where I felt 3D really added to the experience. Avatar came close, and there were times when it was really cool, but there were also times when I turned my head or something didn't line up right and 3D took me out of the movie. Maybe a part of that is that right now the tech is immature, but I know that every time I've paid for 3D it's felt like a ripoff. Ebert's point on focus really hits home for me. When you are watching a movie in 3D it feels like I should be able to focus my eyes anywhere I like, instead of accepting the focus the director has chosen in traditional movies. When I want to look at something in the background in a 3D movie, I expect to be able to focus on it. So either all 3D movies need to be filmed with really high depth of field, or 3D will always feel broken.
- Jach 16y ago
  After finally seeing Avatar in 2D I'm convinced 3D was the only thing it had going for it. As I lulled through the movie there were times when I thought "Yeah, this scene would look cooler in pseudo-3D." I don't think it did a very good job of backwards-compatibility. How to Train Your Dragon, though, was still quite enjoyable in 2D and I hear it was well done in 3D without going overboard.
- sonofjanoh 16y ago
  I'm really curious how people reacted when sound was introduced...then color. Nowadays everyone seems to be a critic and anything you give them they see a drawback to it and sometimes this behavior feels just too forced. It is turning into: back in the days thing... When actors were actors not animated characters etc. Remember back in the days the frame-rate was given by the projector fellow's hand steadiness and now we can control it. It has to start from somewhere. As for me, Sony did some cool engineering to make Avatar possible and Cameron financed this awesome project. For me that is a winner. I enjoyed the 3D experience a lot.
  - frossie 16y ago
    I am old enough to remember when our households transitioned from a B&W TV to a colour TV and I absolutely guarantee you that that the reaction was one of unalloyed joy. No "bah-it-looked-better-before" in sight. The difference is that in B&W you have no idea if the grass is a lush green or a parched brown, whereas in real life you make that determination in an instant.. The problem with 3D is, as Roger Ebert points out, that your brain already derived the 3D based on a 2D image. So the improvement is incremental, if that. The real issue is whether 3D has a real potential in gaming, where gameplay is frequently first-person, as opposed to movie, where the experience is almost always third-person. Or, to put it another way, if you can't turn the camera around, you don't need a 3-D environment.
psyklic 16y ago
Personally, I agree with the author -- tickets were too pricy BEFORE "3-D" came around. However, my friends all love 3-D. They say it provides something they can't get from a DVD, and they'll gladly pay for it.
- _delirium 16y ago
  That's what's driving it, I think: the industry is looking for, "what can we make that the consumer can't replicate at home easily?" It's interesting, though, that this has been one of their answers for literally decades: there was a big fad of 3d films in the 50s. Will be interesting to see if this one turns out to be any more long-lasting.
Raphael 16y ago
Amen to higher frame rates. If you haven't played a video game at 90+ fps yet, you don't know what you're missing.
- RevRal 16y ago
  You don't want very high frame rates in movies, unless you're going for a home video look.
  - tuacker 16y ago
    Relevant: http://xkcd.com/732/ http://xkcd.com/732/ (alt text)
- naz 16y ago
  Video games are different. For the most part there is no motion blur so your brain perceives juddering. Film doesn't have this problem.
  - plorkyeran 16y ago
    The point would be to remove the need for disgusting amounts of motion blur in films.
- aufreak3 16y ago
  At Broadcast Asia 2008, I saw a football game displayed on a multi-HD resolution screen (I think 12x HD, but not sure) @60fps. I should say it took the audience to the game. You can tell individual faces in a packed pavilion. Its all moving in the right direction - more fun.
tom_ilsinszki 16y ago
In Chaplin's autobiography there is a part about the first movies that weren't silent. Everyone was used to silent films, and even Chaplin felt, that speech might hurt his character. I agree 3D movies are different, but they are here, and it is very probable that they will stay. So instead of telling people why 3D sucks, you could ask this: How can filmmakers improve 3D experience?
joegaudet 16y ago
I couldn't agree more with this guy, as former film maker, enthusiast, I've found the 3D movies to be a range of uncomfortable to distracting. Most importantly 3D is used to distract from the fact that the stories are 1D and disinteresting. Avatar... terrible movie. You know what the best form of immersion is, a compelling story, and characters that make me care about them. The movies that I love have filled that role without the use of fancy 3D cameras, and giant blue cats. If you were even to look at films in the same genre, 2001 : a space odyssey would be a perfect example. It used special effects to convey a sense of futurism, and to keep you locked in the world Kubrick created, but they weren't the center piece, the center piece was always the story (as an aside, I think the effects of 2001 still look more photo real than avatar). As always my 0.02 dollars.
- tom_ilsinszki 16y ago
  Just imagine a movie, where 3D is not used as a distraction, but in harmony with the movie; and where the story is complex and beautiful. The only question is, which movie will it be.
  - brianto2010 16y ago
    > "...which movie will it be." Not which movie, but how to create such a movie. How would 3D effects harmonize with a movie? How would 3D add to the "complex and beautiful" story? After solving how, we can answer "which".
    - sesqu 16y ago
      I haven't actually ever seen a 3-D movie. That said, I do think detective stories or other slow-pace movies could genuinely benefit from 3D. The first few would be hopelessly distracting, but eventually people might come to accept the concept, and then you'd be near equal ground with the protagonist. A room full of distractions, some of which the characters draw your attention to; A man on his deathbed, occupying only a corner of the bed and unable to reach the water clearly under a meter away; A couple wandering the streets at night, afraid of thugs until they dodge into a warm and sheltering tavern. I think these kinds of movies could genuinely benefit from a more immersive environment ...eventually. edit: more likely, by the time people can make such movies, the technology will be commonplace enough that no one will notice, except maybe to complain about how they didn't take proper advantage of it.
Murkin 16y ago
I couldn't disagree more with this guy. Maybe he should take a peek at 100 years ago. It was said that movies are the bane of society. Instead of the immersive story telling of books. Here, moving pictures replace the imagination and wisdom of stories. It always takes time to learn how to use a new technology. And it takes time for the market to be full enough when "just using the new tech" is no longer enough. I am hopeful that they will learn how to use 3D to add depth to the story, not their pockets.
- Rauchg 16y ago
  He makes good points though. Avatar did cause dizziness for me, for example. And at times I had a hard time focusing my eyes on the right things to get the 3D effect. I surely hope it's not the future of movies!
  - AndrewDucker 16y ago
    I hope the option of 3D is the future of movies. I want to be able to choose to see movies in 2D or 3D.
- extension 16y ago
  I like that Ebert made it clear that he is not generally opposed to technological innovation in the arts, he just doesn't see much artistic use for 3D. Had I been around when movies were invented, I'm sure I would have been inspired by the possibilities. Likewise with sound and with color, each of which added a whole new dimension to film. Does 3D inspire you creatively? Can you see more than one or two clever experiments before it becomes just an extra layer of butter on the popcorn?
- gojomo 16y ago
  It always takes time to learn how to use a new technology. Is 55 years enough? Because that's how long it's been since the boomlet in 3D movies in the early 1950s. The 3D technology then -- linear polarized images -- was only slightly different from the circular polarization dominating today's 3D offerings. The special effects -- especially computerized -- that can give 3D some extra sizzle have improved and become more cheap. Audiences are wealthier and more novelty-seeking. But 3D still involves downsides that aren't needed for most storytelling -- making some people ill or distracted, lingering focus issues, shrinking the number of angles/seats in a theater that give a good view, increasing production costs, washed out colors. I expect 3D to continue oscillating in popularity over the years, at a slightly higher background level of use, but never becoming the usual/majority format. (Or, by the time 3D does become dominant, there will have been such major advances in displays that movies are no longer displayed on giant screens, but sent to each viewers' eye-mounted heads-up display, or neural-visual interface.)
blue1 16y ago
Once upon a time, when Netscape added the BACKGROUND attribute and FONT element, we obtained web graphics of the geocities variety. Good expressive results for new technologies take some time to be discovered.
- scott_s 16y ago
  I bet the first color movies looked like little more than a gimmick, too. Now, I did see Avatar in 3D. I was curious. I was also underwhelmed, and I agree with all of the technical limitations everyone has mentioned. (Particularly the darker picture). But I'm not naive enough to claim I know what will happen in the future.
  - DannoHung 16y ago
    The Wizard of Oz is generally beloved all these years later.
lkozma 16y ago
"Our minds use the principle of perspective to provide the third dimension." Totally agree with the author. Actually our minds use a whole set of cues besides perspective to estimate the third dimension and stereopsis (used in "3d" movies) is just one of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception
JasonD9 16y ago
I wonder if there were critics expressing their displeasure with color movies when black-and-white movies were the norm? I could see some of the same arguments working. "When you see a black-and-white film your mind automatically adds color", "It adds nothing to the experience", "It can be a distraction".
- pavlov 16y ago
  Absolutely. Some European film critics held this view until recently. I recall one of Finland's former leading critics, a man who used to teach cinema history in the country's leading film school, listing his favorite films of all time in 1996, when the art form turned 100. His list included a single color film, and he made special note of that: "This film demonstrates that it's possible to create a film where color is not a distraction but an essential element."
AndrewDucker 16y ago
I disagree. I've definitely seen movies where 3D added to the experience. Was the 3D vital? No. But then neither was the colour - the films would still have been good in black and white, but the colour added to the experience. Sure, it can be done badly, but that's hardly the fault of the technology.
aufreak3 16y ago
For me, "How to train your dragon" was the most enjoyable 3D experience of all the 3D films I've seen - Avatar, Alice, Clash, HTTYD. The 3D didn't get in the way, and it really enhanced certain parts to the extent that I'd miss it. I've seen this film twice! Coming to think of it, colour films are pretty useless too. What extra enjoyment do you get from colour films that you can't get from B&W films? Any hitchcock, chaplin, etc. fans here? "IT ADDS NOTHING TO THE EXPERIENCE." - That's plain BS. It does for me. "IT CAN BE A DISTRACTION." - Maybe, but so is Eastman color. We're still figuring out the art of it ... and making great progress imo. "IT CAN CREATE NAUSEA AND HEADACHES." - Even normal film can cause epileptic attacks. So what?
- alextp 16y ago
  Color, when used by a good director, adds a lot of subtle semantic content to a movie. See some old Almodovar movies, or maybe Kieslowksy's Three Colors trilogy, or even The Matrix. Color adds information that wasn't already there in black-and-white, just like movement and sound adds a lot of information that weren't already there in comic books.
  - aufreak3 16y ago
    I was being sarcastic with my colour related remarks. The point being that a "new" dimension can feel pointless initially. Its as strange to think of 3D as a "new" dimension as it is to think of "colour" as one.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Any hitchcock, chaplin, etc. fans here? Don't forget that Hitchcock made a 3D movie -- Dial M For Murder was originally done in 3D, and in fact I've never seen it in 2D. There's exactly one moment where the 3D becomes worthwhile, it's where (spoiler alert) the woman getting attacked desperately reaches out onto the desk, towards the audience and picks up the shiny letter opener...
axod 16y ago
Why does society repeat the same mistakes? 1950s - first big 3d boom 1980s - second try 2010s - third try Each generation seems to want to try exactly the same stuff even when it failed the last time. I guess maybe in 2040 it'll work well :)
- jessriedel 16y ago
  People kept trying to make flying machines without success for a long time too...
  - axod 16y ago
    Considering that 2D movies have almost all the 3D cues needed for our brains to interpret them as 3D, I'm not convinced '3D' movies actually make that much sense. It's certainly not comparable to 'flying' vs 'not flying' anyway IMHO.
    - jessriedel 16y ago
      Oh, I haven't seen any movie that makes 3D worthwhile. It's just that the argument "people tried it before and failed" is not even a little convincing.
- hugh3 16y ago
  In the 1950s, it was novel and driven by audiences, who really wanted to see something in 3D. In 2010 it's mostly being pushed by the theaters, who are desperate to have something they can offer people that they can't get by watching Blu-Rays on 50-inch TVs at home, aside from the experience of eating half a ton of popcorn and listening to some jerk on his phone.
tallanvor 16y ago
There are several things that bother me with the current 3D craze. First - and I'll admit this makes me biased - I'm blind in one eye. This means that it doesn't matter what technology they use, I'm not going to be able to see the movie in 3D. Second, the only movie I tried to watch in 3D (in the last 10 years), was Coraline. It was a great film, but having to wear the glasses meant the film was very dark. Third, I've yet to talk to anyone who didn't come out of the film without either a headache or at least a somewhat spacey feeling. The technology strains your eyes, and while I don't believe it causes any lasting damage, it still leaves you worn out after the film. Or maybe my friends and I are just too old. Still, as far as I'm concerned, as long as you have to wear special glasses, 3D movies aren't likely to be considered a normal part of going to the movies.
mixmax 16y ago
Movies are a waste of a perfectly good dimension. Give me a good radioshow any day instead of all this newfangled motion picture business. I may be an old man that's been around forever, but I'm always right, and here's why: 1. IT'S THE WASTE OF A DIMENSION. When you listen to a good radioshow it'a already a moving picture as far as the mind is concerned. Adding one dimension artificially can make the illusion less convincing. 2. IT ADDS NOTHING TO THE EXPERIENCE. Recall the greatest radioshow experiences of your lifetime. Did it "need" pictures? A great radioshow completely engages our imaginations. 4. IT CAN CREATE NAUSEA AND HEADACHES. AS motion picture equipment was being introduced at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January, Reuters interviewed two leading scientists. "There are a lot of people walking around with very minor eye problems for example, a muscle imbalance which under normal circumstances the brain deals with naturally," 6. THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE IN SELLING NEW MOTION PICTURE EQUIPMENT. These projectors are not selling themselves. There was initial opposition from radiostations to the huge cost of new equipment and the loss of marketingshare they are sure to see. Now get off my lawn kid.
- sonofjanoh 16y ago
  You might be old but not always right...and here's why 1. If one wants to create a world per his imagination why not let him and let him share it? Why listen to the radio when you can read the book or the script and leave your imagination do the rest. Even debates are better on screen as body language tells way more than the grunts and sighs that can only be heard. 2. It adds a lot to the experience. You will be seeing someone else's imagination and that can be different than yours. 4. Yes it can. You still have radio if you experience this. Height can give you nausea too and that's why it needed a bunch of people without these "affections" to erect the first skyscrapers which you can benefit from and marvel at. 6. If no money is being made of a technological advancement then it gets forgotten and abandoned. Radio was a big business too and still is.
  - eru 16y ago
    Why did you write this reply?
Jun8 16y ago
It is unsuitable for grown-up films of any seriousness. It limits the freedom of directors to make films as they choose. I fully agree with him at this point in time. I think once 3D gets more mainstream young directors will find ways to make use of this new medium. A lot of the points that Ebert raises are similar to ones raised when sound was beginning to be added to the films in the 1920s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_film). For example "Sufficient playback volume was also hard to achieve"Current problem is that Hollywood uses 3D just to project inherently 2D designed movies on screen, except for some shock scenes where a snake comes at you, etc. This limits its use to juvenilia or "blockbusters" like Avatar. That doesn't mean it's always going to be that way. It's interesting that a sort of Innovator's Dilemma biases people who are in the movie making business. For example, Chaplin saw little value in talkies: "Chaplin firmly believed that “silent film's message reaches the entire spectrum of ‘intellectual and the rank and file’" (http://www.articledashboard.com/Article/Charlie-Chaplin-and--Talkies-/695199 http://www.articledashboard.com/Article/Charlie-Chaplin-and-...) and his sentiment was shared by many actors and producers.
lmkg 16y ago
I think the biggest limitation of 3D, that is not shared by sound or color or other cinema technologies, is that it has limited ability for the director to stylistically alter the scene. It's limited to faithful and accurate reproductions, and that limits its ability to be used for artistic purposes. Color can be used, and more importantly altered, to adjust the audience's perception, by giving characters and scenes psychologically/culturally-loaded color pallets. Smaller and more nimble cameras allow for all sorts of cinematographic shenanigans that subtly manipulate the audience's view by playing with the background while maintaining the foreground. Sound allows an actor another channel to convey emotion, and allowing spoken words instead of text allow for more interactive dialogue, which presents greater options for showing the relationships between characters. Sound also allows for narration, which allows the juxtaposition of exposition and demonstration. The point of all of this, is that all of these technologies give the director additional tools with which to communicate, and using those tools, there are ways in which the cerebral stimulation or emotional impact of the film can be enhanced. Even the most gratuitous of CG effects can be used to good effect, even though 95% of CG is used for bigger and more impressive explosions. E.g., Children of Men makes excellent use of cinematography and CG enhancements, in order to add to the emotional impact of scenes and to add craptons of cultural allusions to the background. By contrast, I don't see how 3D can be used to alter or enhance reality in a way that has meaning. It's largely limited to faithfully reproducing a real or realistic scene. You can make something appear closer or further than it otherwise would... I don't see the use case. This is not to say that it can't be done. I'm not a film maker, and I'm obviously not aware of the full scope of what can be done. Maybe there is some crazy mind-bending case, and I'd love to see it. I love it when technologies are pushed beyond their boundaries to good effect. But I honestly don't think that there are ways to push the envelope of this technology. I think it's limited to realistic reproductions of reality. With that limitation, the film maker cannot use 3D to communicate something that he could not otherwise have communicated. The only thing that additional mechanical accuracy adds is "immersion," which isn't really useful outside of escapist fiction. I, personally, am not very excited about the idea of more effective escapist fiction. Obviously, all new technical achievements in film lend themselves to bigger better escapist fiction, and often get invented for those use cases first. I have no problem with bigger better escapist fiction because I can just choose not to watch it. But, unlike other technical advancements in cinema, I don't think 3D has use outside of escapist fiction, which to me, makes it a rather lackluster achievement. It advances the craft of filmmaking without advancing the art. [e]: I don't believe that 3D is entirely without potential. I'm outlining why I'm skeptical.
decklin 16y ago
One of the things that I like about a movie is if it makes me think about who/what the camera is. Is it a character? A god? Part of some piece of architecture? ...etc. Does it control time/linearity, or does time control it? The idea of implicitly giving it a pair of eyes a few inches apart kind of ruins that for me. Why fake biology if you're ever going to make a jump cut? Most of our visual grammar depends on things actual eyes can't do.
dcurtis 16y ago
Ebert is kind of missing the point. This discussion shouldn't be about 3D, it should be about motion pictures more closely approaching the experience of reality. Sure, 3D technologies today are kind of crappy, but it's part of the technological evolution process. Eventually, we're going to have movies that feel so real you can't tell the difference between the movie and reality. That is the goal. Fake 3D is just the first step, I think. (When the first motion pictures were displayed for audiences on large screens, they also caused nausea and dizziness. In some theaters where the images projected were exceptionally large, people were even provided with vomit bags like on early airplanes. The technology improved and overcame these drawbacks.)
- gdee 16y ago
  You're describing theater with special effects and JIT scene changes. I thing it's a fabulous premise and I've been thinking the same about the supposed destination of 3D movies.
JoeAltmaier 16y ago
Its called "simulator sickness" and occurs in a fraction of the population when your inner ear and eyes disagree on your motion. Fun for some, total nausea for others.
JoeAltmaier 16y ago
I certainly think a great 3D movie CAN be made. Imagine a WWII fighter-plane movie in 3D! Heck, even Avatar did some cool things with it. Blame the director - sending things out of the screen into the audience because you CAN is just poor cinematography. I'll wait until the next generation of more artful 3D films, then decide.
sandal 16y ago
If only we could bring back smell-o-vision...
jessriedel 16y ago
This is the very first thing I noticed in Avatar: >Its image is noticeably darker than standard 2-D.
jerf 16y ago
I agree, but for totally different reasons. Consider how 3D works... no, not the cameras and projectors, the brain. It is "well known" that the brain detects how far away something is by measuring how much the eyes have to cross for the two images to converge. What seems to be much less well known, though it is obvious with elementary geometry, is that the breaks down as you get further and further away, as the difference in angles becomes smaller and smaller. And it's only a few tens of feet. Beyond that, you brain uses numerous context clues to assemble a 3D image of the environment; one big one is occlusion, for instance; a thing that is visibly in front of another thing is clearly closer. 3D technology can only really use the eye-difference thing. Conventional 2D technology is already perfectly good at all the other clues. (Try playing a 3D game sometime and simply trying to see it in 3D; you may find that it's perfectly possible and merely a perspective shift much like seeing the vase or the face in the classical optical illusion.) Consequently, you end up with an effect where everything is either taking place on a very small stage in front of you, or still stuck to the background in totally normal 2D. In the worst case, the background is a visible plane, like a skybox. There is no way around this limitation. It's fundamental. A space fight, which sounds like it would be awesome in 3D, is actually fundamentally a 2D thing, when it comes to projection technology. If any bit of the space fight is within you 3D-binocular-vision range, you're probably already dead. It may look awesome, but simultaneously, it is going to look like a toy, intrinsically, because if it is in 3D, it is equally obviously a space fight between two spaceship toys taking place about twenty feet in front of you. I'm not saying there's no place for 3D, but I'm not exactly holding my breath. Someday, I suspect we'll look back on this series of 3D movies as slightly more sophisticated than the ones from decades past, but only slightly, committing all sorts of "blindingly obvious" scale errors and other such things.
jcl 16y ago
What Hollywood needs is a "premium" experience that is obviously, dramatically better than anything at home, suitable for films aimed at all ages, and worth a surcharge. For years I've been praising a process invented by Dean Goodhill called MaxiVision48, which uses existing film technology but shoots at 48 frames per second and provides smooth projection that is absolutely jiggle-free. I'm not sure why Ebert thinks this technology will draw moviegoers out of their homes. Many HD TVs and console games run at 60 fps. High-fps movies would leak into the home far faster than 3D has.
ktf 16y ago
People said the same thing about sound. And color. And widescreen. And so on. Attack the films themselves, not the medium. It's only going to be as good as the artist who uses it. Don't fear new technology, even if you are an over-the-hill critic.
- andrewvc 16y ago
  I agree, this reminds me of how people would get up in arms about 2d artwork created on a computer. Sadly, many people confuse craftsmanship for art, this leaves people who like things the way they are angry, and those who want the new shiny drooling over crappy art that happens to use new tools. This all brings to mind Duchamp's 'Fountain', and various people's reaction to it. It's amusing how some debates never end.
jcromartie 16y ago
3D seems to have one trick: throwing things at the screen to startle you.
evo_9 16y ago
There is some merit to his comments. I recently watched Avatar in HD at home with my gf 5 and 8 year old. Both said they liked it more because it was 'clearer and brighter'. When I pressed the 8 year old he said that he thought he could see more detail in the background.

89 points by hernan7 16y ago

yason 16y ago

Well, I think 3D has no place in the cinema. Films have been and films are an art form consisting of two-dimensional moving pictures. You can't change that, just as you can't say that a three-dimensional computer image is just a form of painting, just 3D. However, I think that the 3D is a new art form of its own, and it's only at its developing stage at the time. 3D may not be the right medium for what we consider good films as the 3D projections are not of the same art as traditional cinematic films. We will see what experiences the 3D turns out to produce, but it's probably going to find other uses than emulating films.

RevRal 16y ago

Once again, Herzog is my man: And my hero, Werner Herzog, is using 3-D to film prehistoric cave paintings in France, to better show off the concavities of the ancient caves. He told me that nothing will "approach" the audience, and his film will stay behind the plane of the screen. In other words, nothing will hurtle at the audience, and 3-D will allow us the illusion of being able to occupy the space with the paintings and look into them, experiencing them as a prehistoric artist standing in the cavern might have. That sounds awesome. Even though it was great fun watching Avatar in IMAX and in 3D, I can't help but cringe at all the wasted plastic used for the glasses.

pavlov 16y ago
There are several competing theatrical 3D systems: RealD, Dolby 3D, XpanD. Their technologies are completely different: respectively polarisation, wavelength multiplexing, shutter glasses. Only RealD uses cheap disposable glasses. In Dolby 3D and XpanD, the glasses are fairly expensive to produce, and thus are recycled (collected from the audience after the show, washed and redistributed). Americans seem to overwhelmingly prefer RealD, while Dolby 3D and XpanD dominate in Europe. Anyone surprised? :)
- antirez 16y ago
  In Italy Dolby 3D is the only one I saw used. You get the glasses when entering inside the cinema, (they are washed with a special disinfectant in order to kill viruses and other bugs), and then after the show you give it back to the cinema guy. It's fun the first two times, just to try, but the plain cinema is much better, with better colors and a lot more relaxing. The good thing is that since the 3D mania there are no problems in fining available sits in the non-3D rooms.
DannoHung 16y ago
Really? They ask you to turn the RealD glasses back in at the theaters I go to. We don't actually have any options in the way of 3D movie technology.

macrael 16y ago

I have yet to go to a 3D movie where I felt 3D really added to the experience. Avatar came close, and there were times when it was really cool, but there were also times when I turned my head or something didn't line up right and 3D took me out of the movie. Maybe a part of that is that right now the tech is immature, but I know that every time I've paid for 3D it's felt like a ripoff. Ebert's point on focus really hits home for me. When you are watching a movie in 3D it feels like I should be able to focus my eyes anywhere I like, instead of accepting the focus the director has chosen in traditional movies. When I want to look at something in the background in a 3D movie, I expect to be able to focus on it. So either all 3D movies need to be filmed with really high depth of field, or 3D will always feel broken.

Jach 16y ago
After finally seeing Avatar in 2D I'm convinced 3D was the only thing it had going for it. As I lulled through the movie there were times when I thought "Yeah, this scene would look cooler in pseudo-3D." I don't think it did a very good job of backwards-compatibility. How to Train Your Dragon, though, was still quite enjoyable in 2D and I hear it was well done in 3D without going overboard.
sonofjanoh 16y ago
I'm really curious how people reacted when sound was introduced...then color. Nowadays everyone seems to be a critic and anything you give them they see a drawback to it and sometimes this behavior feels just too forced. It is turning into: back in the days thing... When actors were actors not animated characters etc. Remember back in the days the frame-rate was given by the projector fellow's hand steadiness and now we can control it. It has to start from somewhere. As for me, Sony did some cool engineering to make Avatar possible and Cameron financed this awesome project. For me that is a winner. I enjoyed the 3D experience a lot.
- frossie 16y ago
  I am old enough to remember when our households transitioned from a B&W TV to a colour TV and I absolutely guarantee you that that the reaction was one of unalloyed joy. No "bah-it-looked-better-before" in sight. The difference is that in B&W you have no idea if the grass is a lush green or a parched brown, whereas in real life you make that determination in an instant.. The problem with 3D is, as Roger Ebert points out, that your brain already derived the 3D based on a 2D image. So the improvement is incremental, if that. The real issue is whether 3D has a real potential in gaming, where gameplay is frequently first-person, as opposed to movie, where the experience is almost always third-person. Or, to put it another way, if you can't turn the camera around, you don't need a 3-D environment.

psyklic 16y ago

Personally, I agree with the author -- tickets were too pricy BEFORE "3-D" came around. However, my friends all love 3-D. They say it provides something they can't get from a DVD, and they'll gladly pay for it.

_delirium 16y ago
That's what's driving it, I think: the industry is looking for, "what can we make that the consumer can't replicate at home easily?" It's interesting, though, that this has been one of their answers for literally decades: there was a big fad of 3d films in the 50s. Will be interesting to see if this one turns out to be any more long-lasting.

Raphael 16y ago

Amen to higher frame rates. If you haven't played a video game at 90+ fps yet, you don't know what you're missing.

RevRal 16y ago
You don't want very high frame rates in movies, unless you're going for a home video look.
- tuacker 16y ago
  Relevant: http://xkcd.com/732/ http://xkcd.com/732/ (alt text)
naz 16y ago
Video games are different. For the most part there is no motion blur so your brain perceives juddering. Film doesn't have this problem.
- plorkyeran 16y ago
  The point would be to remove the need for disgusting amounts of motion blur in films.
aufreak3 16y ago
At Broadcast Asia 2008, I saw a football game displayed on a multi-HD resolution screen (I think 12x HD, but not sure) @60fps. I should say it took the audience to the game. You can tell individual faces in a packed pavilion. Its all moving in the right direction - more fun.

tom_ilsinszki 16y ago

In Chaplin's autobiography there is a part about the first movies that weren't silent. Everyone was used to silent films, and even Chaplin felt, that speech might hurt his character. I agree 3D movies are different, but they are here, and it is very probable that they will stay. So instead of telling people why 3D sucks, you could ask this: How can filmmakers improve 3D experience?

joegaudet 16y ago

I couldn't agree more with this guy, as former film maker, enthusiast, I've found the 3D movies to be a range of uncomfortable to distracting. Most importantly 3D is used to distract from the fact that the stories are 1D and disinteresting. Avatar... terrible movie. You know what the best form of immersion is, a compelling story, and characters that make me care about them. The movies that I love have filled that role without the use of fancy 3D cameras, and giant blue cats. If you were even to look at films in the same genre, 2001 : a space odyssey would be a perfect example. It used special effects to convey a sense of futurism, and to keep you locked in the world Kubrick created, but they weren't the center piece, the center piece was always the story (as an aside, I think the effects of 2001 still look more photo real than avatar). As always my 0.02 dollars.

tom_ilsinszki 16y ago
Just imagine a movie, where 3D is not used as a distraction, but in harmony with the movie; and where the story is complex and beautiful. The only question is, which movie will it be.
- brianto2010 16y ago
  > "...which movie will it be." Not which movie, but how to create such a movie. How would 3D effects harmonize with a movie? How would 3D add to the "complex and beautiful" story? After solving how, we can answer "which".
  - sesqu 16y ago
    I haven't actually ever seen a 3-D movie. That said, I do think detective stories or other slow-pace movies could genuinely benefit from 3D. The first few would be hopelessly distracting, but eventually people might come to accept the concept, and then you'd be near equal ground with the protagonist. A room full of distractions, some of which the characters draw your attention to; A man on his deathbed, occupying only a corner of the bed and unable to reach the water clearly under a meter away; A couple wandering the streets at night, afraid of thugs until they dodge into a warm and sheltering tavern. I think these kinds of movies could genuinely benefit from a more immersive environment ...eventually. edit: more likely, by the time people can make such movies, the technology will be commonplace enough that no one will notice, except maybe to complain about how they didn't take proper advantage of it.

Murkin 16y ago

I couldn't disagree more with this guy. Maybe he should take a peek at 100 years ago. It was said that movies are the bane of society. Instead of the immersive story telling of books. Here, moving pictures replace the imagination and wisdom of stories. It always takes time to learn how to use a new technology. And it takes time for the market to be full enough when "just using the new tech" is no longer enough. I am hopeful that they will learn how to use 3D to add depth to the story, not their pockets.

Rauchg 16y ago
He makes good points though. Avatar did cause dizziness for me, for example. And at times I had a hard time focusing my eyes on the right things to get the 3D effect. I surely hope it's not the future of movies!
- AndrewDucker 16y ago
  I hope the option of 3D is the future of movies. I want to be able to choose to see movies in 2D or 3D.
extension 16y ago
I like that Ebert made it clear that he is not generally opposed to technological innovation in the arts, he just doesn't see much artistic use for 3D. Had I been around when movies were invented, I'm sure I would have been inspired by the possibilities. Likewise with sound and with color, each of which added a whole new dimension to film. Does 3D inspire you creatively? Can you see more than one or two clever experiments before it becomes just an extra layer of butter on the popcorn?
gojomo 16y ago
It always takes time to learn how to use a new technology. Is 55 years enough? Because that's how long it's been since the boomlet in 3D movies in the early 1950s. The 3D technology then -- linear polarized images -- was only slightly different from the circular polarization dominating today's 3D offerings. The special effects -- especially computerized -- that can give 3D some extra sizzle have improved and become more cheap. Audiences are wealthier and more novelty-seeking. But 3D still involves downsides that aren't needed for most storytelling -- making some people ill or distracted, lingering focus issues, shrinking the number of angles/seats in a theater that give a good view, increasing production costs, washed out colors. I expect 3D to continue oscillating in popularity over the years, at a slightly higher background level of use, but never becoming the usual/majority format. (Or, by the time 3D does become dominant, there will have been such major advances in displays that movies are no longer displayed on giant screens, but sent to each viewers' eye-mounted heads-up display, or neural-visual interface.)

blue1 16y ago

Once upon a time, when Netscape added the BACKGROUND attribute and FONT element, we obtained web graphics of the geocities variety. Good expressive results for new technologies take some time to be discovered.

scott_s 16y ago
I bet the first color movies looked like little more than a gimmick, too. Now, I did see Avatar in 3D. I was curious. I was also underwhelmed, and I agree with all of the technical limitations everyone has mentioned. (Particularly the darker picture). But I'm not naive enough to claim I know what will happen in the future.
- DannoHung 16y ago
  The Wizard of Oz is generally beloved all these years later.

lkozma 16y ago

"Our minds use the principle of perspective to provide the third dimension." Totally agree with the author. Actually our minds use a whole set of cues besides perspective to estimate the third dimension and stereopsis (used in "3d" movies) is just one of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception

JasonD9 16y ago

I wonder if there were critics expressing their displeasure with color movies when black-and-white movies were the norm? I could see some of the same arguments working. "When you see a black-and-white film your mind automatically adds color", "It adds nothing to the experience", "It can be a distraction".

pavlov 16y ago
Absolutely. Some European film critics held this view until recently. I recall one of Finland's former leading critics, a man who used to teach cinema history in the country's leading film school, listing his favorite films of all time in 1996, when the art form turned 100. His list included a single color film, and he made special note of that: "This film demonstrates that it's possible to create a film where color is not a distraction but an essential element."

AndrewDucker 16y ago

I disagree. I've definitely seen movies where 3D added to the experience. Was the 3D vital? No. But then neither was the colour - the films would still have been good in black and white, but the colour added to the experience. Sure, it can be done badly, but that's hardly the fault of the technology.

aufreak3 16y ago

For me, "How to train your dragon" was the most enjoyable 3D experience of all the 3D films I've seen - Avatar, Alice, Clash, HTTYD. The 3D didn't get in the way, and it really enhanced certain parts to the extent that I'd miss it. I've seen this film twice! Coming to think of it, colour films are pretty useless too. What extra enjoyment do you get from colour films that you can't get from B&W films? Any hitchcock, chaplin, etc. fans here? "IT ADDS NOTHING TO THE EXPERIENCE." - That's plain BS. It does for me. "IT CAN BE A DISTRACTION." - Maybe, but so is Eastman color. We're still figuring out the art of it ... and making great progress imo. "IT CAN CREATE NAUSEA AND HEADACHES." - Even normal film can cause epileptic attacks. So what?

alextp 16y ago
Color, when used by a good director, adds a lot of subtle semantic content to a movie. See some old Almodovar movies, or maybe Kieslowksy's Three Colors trilogy, or even The Matrix. Color adds information that wasn't already there in black-and-white, just like movement and sound adds a lot of information that weren't already there in comic books.
- aufreak3 16y ago
  I was being sarcastic with my colour related remarks. The point being that a "new" dimension can feel pointless initially. Its as strange to think of 3D as a "new" dimension as it is to think of "colour" as one.
hugh3 16y ago
Any hitchcock, chaplin, etc. fans here? Don't forget that Hitchcock made a 3D movie -- Dial M For Murder was originally done in 3D, and in fact I've never seen it in 2D. There's exactly one moment where the 3D becomes worthwhile, it's where (spoiler alert) the woman getting attacked desperately reaches out onto the desk, towards the audience and picks up the shiny letter opener...

axod 16y ago

Why does society repeat the same mistakes? 1950s - first big 3d boom 1980s - second try 2010s - third try Each generation seems to want to try exactly the same stuff even when it failed the last time. I guess maybe in 2040 it'll work well :)

jessriedel 16y ago
People kept trying to make flying machines without success for a long time too...
- axod 16y ago
  Considering that 2D movies have almost all the 3D cues needed for our brains to interpret them as 3D, I'm not convinced '3D' movies actually make that much sense. It's certainly not comparable to 'flying' vs 'not flying' anyway IMHO.
  - jessriedel 16y ago
    Oh, I haven't seen any movie that makes 3D worthwhile. It's just that the argument "people tried it before and failed" is not even a little convincing.
hugh3 16y ago
In the 1950s, it was novel and driven by audiences, who really wanted to see something in 3D. In 2010 it's mostly being pushed by the theaters, who are desperate to have something they can offer people that they can't get by watching Blu-Rays on 50-inch TVs at home, aside from the experience of eating half a ton of popcorn and listening to some jerk on his phone.

tallanvor 16y ago

There are several things that bother me with the current 3D craze. First - and I'll admit this makes me biased - I'm blind in one eye. This means that it doesn't matter what technology they use, I'm not going to be able to see the movie in 3D. Second, the only movie I tried to watch in 3D (in the last 10 years), was Coraline. It was a great film, but having to wear the glasses meant the film was very dark. Third, I've yet to talk to anyone who didn't come out of the film without either a headache or at least a somewhat spacey feeling. The technology strains your eyes, and while I don't believe it causes any lasting damage, it still leaves you worn out after the film. Or maybe my friends and I are just too old. Still, as far as I'm concerned, as long as you have to wear special glasses, 3D movies aren't likely to be considered a normal part of going to the movies.

mixmax 16y ago

Movies are a waste of a perfectly good dimension. Give me a good radioshow any day instead of all this newfangled motion picture business. I may be an old man that's been around forever, but I'm always right, and here's why: 1. IT'S THE WASTE OF A DIMENSION. When you listen to a good radioshow it'a already a moving picture as far as the mind is concerned. Adding one dimension artificially can make the illusion less convincing. 2. IT ADDS NOTHING TO THE EXPERIENCE. Recall the greatest radioshow experiences of your lifetime. Did it "need" pictures? A great radioshow completely engages our imaginations. 4. IT CAN CREATE NAUSEA AND HEADACHES. AS motion picture equipment was being introduced at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January, Reuters interviewed two leading scientists. "There are a lot of people walking around with very minor eye problems for example, a muscle imbalance which under normal circumstances the brain deals with naturally," 6. THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE IN SELLING NEW MOTION PICTURE EQUIPMENT. These projectors are not selling themselves. There was initial opposition from radiostations to the huge cost of new equipment and the loss of marketingshare they are sure to see. Now get off my lawn kid.

sonofjanoh 16y ago
You might be old but not always right...and here's why 1. If one wants to create a world per his imagination why not let him and let him share it? Why listen to the radio when you can read the book or the script and leave your imagination do the rest. Even debates are better on screen as body language tells way more than the grunts and sighs that can only be heard. 2. It adds a lot to the experience. You will be seeing someone else's imagination and that can be different than yours. 4. Yes it can. You still have radio if you experience this. Height can give you nausea too and that's why it needed a bunch of people without these "affections" to erect the first skyscrapers which you can benefit from and marvel at. 6. If no money is being made of a technological advancement then it gets forgotten and abandoned. Radio was a big business too and still is.
- eru 16y ago
  Why did you write this reply?

Jun8 16y ago

It is unsuitable for grown-up films of any seriousness. It limits the freedom of directors to make films as they choose. I fully agree with him at this point in time. I think once 3D gets more mainstream young directors will find ways to make use of this new medium. A lot of the points that Ebert raises are similar to ones raised when sound was beginning to be added to the films in the 1920s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_film). For example "Sufficient playback volume was also hard to achieve"Current problem is that Hollywood uses 3D just to project inherently 2D designed movies on screen, except for some shock scenes where a snake comes at you, etc. This limits its use to juvenilia or "blockbusters" like Avatar. That doesn't mean it's always going to be that way. It's interesting that a sort of Innovator's Dilemma biases people who are in the movie making business. For example, Chaplin saw little value in talkies: "Chaplin firmly believed that “silent film's message reaches the entire spectrum of ‘intellectual and the rank and file’" (http://www.articledashboard.com/Article/Charlie-Chaplin-and--Talkies-/695199 http://www.articledashboard.com/Article/Charlie-Chaplin-and-...) and his sentiment was shared by many actors and producers.

lmkg 16y ago

I think the biggest limitation of 3D, that is not shared by sound or color or other cinema technologies, is that it has limited ability for the director to stylistically alter the scene. It's limited to faithful and accurate reproductions, and that limits its ability to be used for artistic purposes. Color can be used, and more importantly altered, to adjust the audience's perception, by giving characters and scenes psychologically/culturally-loaded color pallets. Smaller and more nimble cameras allow for all sorts of cinematographic shenanigans that subtly manipulate the audience's view by playing with the background while maintaining the foreground. Sound allows an actor another channel to convey emotion, and allowing spoken words instead of text allow for more interactive dialogue, which presents greater options for showing the relationships between characters. Sound also allows for narration, which allows the juxtaposition of exposition and demonstration. The point of all of this, is that all of these technologies give the director additional tools with which to communicate, and using those tools, there are ways in which the cerebral stimulation or emotional impact of the film can be enhanced. Even the most gratuitous of CG effects can be used to good effect, even though 95% of CG is used for bigger and more impressive explosions. E.g., Children of Men makes excellent use of cinematography and CG enhancements, in order to add to the emotional impact of scenes and to add craptons of cultural allusions to the background. By contrast, I don't see how 3D can be used to alter or enhance reality in a way that has meaning. It's largely limited to faithfully reproducing a real or realistic scene. You can make something appear closer or further than it otherwise would... I don't see the use case. This is not to say that it can't be done. I'm not a film maker, and I'm obviously not aware of the full scope of what can be done. Maybe there is some crazy mind-bending case, and I'd love to see it. I love it when technologies are pushed beyond their boundaries to good effect. But I honestly don't think that there are ways to push the envelope of this technology. I think it's limited to realistic reproductions of reality. With that limitation, the film maker cannot use 3D to communicate something that he could not otherwise have communicated. The only thing that additional mechanical accuracy adds is "immersion," which isn't really useful outside of escapist fiction. I, personally, am not very excited about the idea of more effective escapist fiction. Obviously, all new technical achievements in film lend themselves to bigger better escapist fiction, and often get invented for those use cases first. I have no problem with bigger better escapist fiction because I can just choose not to watch it. But, unlike other technical advancements in cinema, I don't think 3D has use outside of escapist fiction, which to me, makes it a rather lackluster achievement. It advances the craft of filmmaking without advancing the art. [e]: I don't believe that 3D is entirely without potential. I'm outlining why I'm skeptical.

decklin 16y ago

One of the things that I like about a movie is if it makes me think about who/what the camera is. Is it a character? A god? Part of some piece of architecture? ...etc. Does it control time/linearity, or does time control it? The idea of implicitly giving it a pair of eyes a few inches apart kind of ruins that for me. Why fake biology if you're ever going to make a jump cut? Most of our visual grammar depends on things actual eyes can't do.

dcurtis 16y ago

Ebert is kind of missing the point. This discussion shouldn't be about 3D, it should be about motion pictures more closely approaching the experience of reality. Sure, 3D technologies today are kind of crappy, but it's part of the technological evolution process. Eventually, we're going to have movies that feel so real you can't tell the difference between the movie and reality. That is the goal. Fake 3D is just the first step, I think. (When the first motion pictures were displayed for audiences on large screens, they also caused nausea and dizziness. In some theaters where the images projected were exceptionally large, people were even provided with vomit bags like on early airplanes. The technology improved and overcame these drawbacks.)

gdee 16y ago
You're describing theater with special effects and JIT scene changes. I thing it's a fabulous premise and I've been thinking the same about the supposed destination of 3D movies.

JoeAltmaier 16y ago

Its called "simulator sickness" and occurs in a fraction of the population when your inner ear and eyes disagree on your motion. Fun for some, total nausea for others.

JoeAltmaier 16y ago

I certainly think a great 3D movie CAN be made. Imagine a WWII fighter-plane movie in 3D! Heck, even Avatar did some cool things with it. Blame the director - sending things out of the screen into the audience because you CAN is just poor cinematography. I'll wait until the next generation of more artful 3D films, then decide.

sandal 16y ago

If only we could bring back smell-o-vision...

jessriedel 16y ago

This is the very first thing I noticed in Avatar: >Its image is noticeably darker than standard 2-D.

jerf 16y ago

I agree, but for totally different reasons. Consider how 3D works... no, not the cameras and projectors, the brain. It is "well known" that the brain detects how far away something is by measuring how much the eyes have to cross for the two images to converge. What seems to be much less well known, though it is obvious with elementary geometry, is that the breaks down as you get further and further away, as the difference in angles becomes smaller and smaller. And it's only a few tens of feet. Beyond that, you brain uses numerous context clues to assemble a 3D image of the environment; one big one is occlusion, for instance; a thing that is visibly in front of another thing is clearly closer. 3D technology can only really use the eye-difference thing. Conventional 2D technology is already perfectly good at all the other clues. (Try playing a 3D game sometime and simply trying to see it in 3D; you may find that it's perfectly possible and merely a perspective shift much like seeing the vase or the face in the classical optical illusion.) Consequently, you end up with an effect where everything is either taking place on a very small stage in front of you, or still stuck to the background in totally normal 2D. In the worst case, the background is a visible plane, like a skybox. There is no way around this limitation. It's fundamental. A space fight, which sounds like it would be awesome in 3D, is actually fundamentally a 2D thing, when it comes to projection technology. If any bit of the space fight is within you 3D-binocular-vision range, you're probably already dead. It may look awesome, but simultaneously, it is going to look like a toy, intrinsically, because if it is in 3D, it is equally obviously a space fight between two spaceship toys taking place about twenty feet in front of you. I'm not saying there's no place for 3D, but I'm not exactly holding my breath. Someday, I suspect we'll look back on this series of 3D movies as slightly more sophisticated than the ones from decades past, but only slightly, committing all sorts of "blindingly obvious" scale errors and other such things.

jcl 16y ago

What Hollywood needs is a "premium" experience that is obviously, dramatically better than anything at home, suitable for films aimed at all ages, and worth a surcharge. For years I've been praising a process invented by Dean Goodhill called MaxiVision48, which uses existing film technology but shoots at 48 frames per second and provides smooth projection that is absolutely jiggle-free. I'm not sure why Ebert thinks this technology will draw moviegoers out of their homes. Many HD TVs and console games run at 60 fps. High-fps movies would leak into the home far faster than 3D has.

ktf 16y ago

People said the same thing about sound. And color. And widescreen. And so on. Attack the films themselves, not the medium. It's only going to be as good as the artist who uses it. Don't fear new technology, even if you are an over-the-hill critic.

andrewvc 16y ago
I agree, this reminds me of how people would get up in arms about 2d artwork created on a computer. Sadly, many people confuse craftsmanship for art, this leaves people who like things the way they are angry, and those who want the new shiny drooling over crappy art that happens to use new tools. This all brings to mind Duchamp's 'Fountain', and various people's reaction to it. It's amusing how some debates never end.

jcromartie 16y ago

3D seems to have one trick: throwing things at the screen to startle you.

evo_9 16y ago

There is some merit to his comments. I recently watched Avatar in HD at home with my gf 5 and 8 year old. Both said they liked it more because it was 'clearer and brighter'. When I pressed the 8 year old he said that he thought he could see more detail in the background.