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> Is there any reason to believe a divorce settlement would not divide your assets reasonably equally/fairly? In an ideal world, no. But a co-worker of mine --

> Is there any reason to believe a divorce settlement would not divide your assets reasonably equally/fairly? In an ideal world, no. But a co-worker of mine -- Indian guy from India like my Dad was -- with 2 kids got divorced, and his all American white wife (born and raised in Florida) essentially took him to the cleaners. I don't know the details, but apparently she "worked" the system by "getting fired" from her day job months before the divorce was initiated, and now he has to pay child-support and alimony and 1/2 their house (on which he's the only one paying the mortgage) while she is "rediscovering" herself with yoga, hiking and other trips paid for by my co-worker's alimony. He is 44 years old and in a state of panic. I think the only thing common between me and him is that we share the same ethnic origin. Maybe I am over-thinking this, or maybe not. LOL.

JustSomeNobody 10y ago
"Taken to the cleaners": Child support for 2 kids and 1/2 the house. Oh come on! You have to take care of your kids! And, like it or not, 1/2 that house is yours and you should help pay. Sell it if you need to get out from under the debt, but it's still 1/2 yours to deal with. Alimony. Ok, maybe he could have gotten out of this. All in all, this is HARDLY getting taken to the cleaners. This is pretty much to be expected (especially the Child Support!).
- cgriswald 10y ago
  I agree. That sounds like a more-or-less standard divorce. > Alimony. Ok, maybe he could have gotten out of this. Even if the wife lost her job months before the divorce, she should still be required to seek work and/or agree to stipulate a particular income for herself from which spousal support would be calculated.
- shostack 10y ago
  Forgetting gender and who earns what for a moment... If one partner earns more and pays a disproportionate amount of the downpayment and mortgage on a house that both partners live in, is the house really only 1/2 theirs legally? Ethically? And in such an arrangement, particularly where one partner decides to stay in the home, can the partner who is not there force the sale to improve their cashflow? If so, how should the proceeds be divvied up assuming that a disproportionate amount of money was paid into the house by one partner?
  - Goronmon 10y ago
    If one partner earns more and pays a disproportionate amount of the downpayment and mortgage on a house that both partners live in, is the house really only 1/2 theirs legally? Ethically? Makes sense to me. If say, the dad stays home to take care of the house and look after the children, while the wife works. Should the husband then be left with no claim to money/house if the wife decides she wants a divorce? Maintaining a house and raising children are not low effort jobs. If you calculate how much daycare + a basic cleaning service would be year round, I doubt the cost would be minimal. Not to mention the fact that the person staying home will undoubtedly have a tough time entering the workforce after an extending period of time away from their careers. Even if both work, how would you go about figuring out the split if the incomes were inequal? Do you literally just take the incomes and proportionally divide up the assets accordingly? What if the person earning more doesn't actually contribute their share to the mortgage, and wastes money on frivolous expenditures? How do you actually decide what is fair?
    - shostack 10y ago
      Thanks for the thoughtful answer. I'm not sure why I got downvoted--I'm genuinely curious about people's responses to this. Being a homemaker is absolutely a high effort job, and cleaning/daycare are hardly cheap. You also are right to point out the opportunity cost of not being in the workplace. These are interesting things to think about as I just don't think the matter is as black and white as some people might want to think.
      - kamaal 10y ago
        But that isn't what happened there. The wife quit the job on intention so that she could be eligible for free alimony pay from the husband. Why work and make a living, while you could skin this man alive and have him pay for you. This sort of behavior incentivizes divorce. Not that hard to play victim when you can get some one to pay for you all life, while you chill around beaches and make merry.
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    > If one partner earns more and pays a disproportionate amount of the downpayment and mortgage on a house that both partners live in, is the house really only 1/2 theirs legally? Ethically? In a marriage, this is what you agree to, yes.
- wastinglife123 10y ago
  if this is to be "expected" then why would anyone get married in California? Can you imagine the psychological cost of paying for your ex-wife (who initiated the divorce and planned well in advance to maximize her financial position) to enjoy herself without working?
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    You're only focusing on the alimony part, but anyway, if the court says you owe alimony, then you do. If you later find out your ex isn't trying to find gainful employment, you can always have your lawyer try and get you out of alimony. Almost nobody should complain about paying child support[0] and 1/2 the house. Those are still responsibilities that need to be taken care of. [0] I left this open ended because there are (very rare) exceptions.
ryuker16 10y ago
you think he is telling you the whole story?
digler999 10y ago
> from India like my Dad was -- with 2 kids got divorced, and his all American white wife I wonder how much citizenship played into his decision to marry her originally ? In that case he would have been using her for a ticket on the "all american" gravy train.
- sean_patel 10y ago
  > I wonder how much citizenship played into his decision to marry her originally ? Nothing at all. In fact, he had already "earned" his Green Card by slaving for his Tech Employers for over 10 years. In his own words, it was "Love at 1st sight." Too bad it turned out this way. He says his Indian parents warned him against marrying a "Gori Ladkee" (i.e. white lady)
manarth 10y ago
> now he has to pay child-support and alimony and 1/2 their house As a Brit, I'm not all that familiar with the term "alimony", but the dictionary definition I've read says "a husband's or wife's court-ordered provision for a spouse after separation or divorce". Alimony appears to be a generic term for the total payment from one spouse to another, on divorce. Would that mean he's paying "child-support and 1/2 their house"? From the information given, that seems a fairly equitable split. Half the house, and a contribution towards his childrens' costs. OK, maybe he's the only one currently paying the mortgage, but in most circumstances, that would be a choice left to him: whether to keep his share (and equity) in the property, or sell it.
- mahyarm 10y ago
  Alimony is also known as 'spousal support'. It's a completely different payment independent from child support. You can only get alimony if your married. Child support can come up if your married or not and is based on how many children you have and your income levels. Your income can be imputed, which means your still on the hook even though you don't have that income level anymore. Child support is based on custody, which is a major reason why they turn very nasty in the USA/Canada. It also sounds like they have a 3rd payment requirement in paying the mortgage. I don't know if that is voluntary or court ordered. So this guy is paying 1. Spousal support 2. Child support 3. A mortgage I can see him in that case paying out more than %60 of his income and possibly going in debt or living in his car to cover the shortage.
- bzbarsky 10y ago
  Alimony is quite different from child support in US law. For one thing, child support ends once the kids are old enough. When and whether alimony payments end probably depends on the state...

JustSomeNobody 10y ago

"Taken to the cleaners": Child support for 2 kids and 1/2 the house. Oh come on! You have to take care of your kids! And, like it or not, 1/2 that house is yours and you should help pay. Sell it if you need to get out from under the debt, but it's still 1/2 yours to deal with. Alimony. Ok, maybe he could have gotten out of this. All in all, this is HARDLY getting taken to the cleaners. This is pretty much to be expected (especially the Child Support!).

cgriswald 10y ago
I agree. That sounds like a more-or-less standard divorce. > Alimony. Ok, maybe he could have gotten out of this. Even if the wife lost her job months before the divorce, she should still be required to seek work and/or agree to stipulate a particular income for herself from which spousal support would be calculated.
shostack 10y ago
Forgetting gender and who earns what for a moment... If one partner earns more and pays a disproportionate amount of the downpayment and mortgage on a house that both partners live in, is the house really only 1/2 theirs legally? Ethically? And in such an arrangement, particularly where one partner decides to stay in the home, can the partner who is not there force the sale to improve their cashflow? If so, how should the proceeds be divvied up assuming that a disproportionate amount of money was paid into the house by one partner?
- Goronmon 10y ago
  If one partner earns more and pays a disproportionate amount of the downpayment and mortgage on a house that both partners live in, is the house really only 1/2 theirs legally? Ethically? Makes sense to me. If say, the dad stays home to take care of the house and look after the children, while the wife works. Should the husband then be left with no claim to money/house if the wife decides she wants a divorce? Maintaining a house and raising children are not low effort jobs. If you calculate how much daycare + a basic cleaning service would be year round, I doubt the cost would be minimal. Not to mention the fact that the person staying home will undoubtedly have a tough time entering the workforce after an extending period of time away from their careers. Even if both work, how would you go about figuring out the split if the incomes were inequal? Do you literally just take the incomes and proportionally divide up the assets accordingly? What if the person earning more doesn't actually contribute their share to the mortgage, and wastes money on frivolous expenditures? How do you actually decide what is fair?
  - shostack 10y ago
    Thanks for the thoughtful answer. I'm not sure why I got downvoted--I'm genuinely curious about people's responses to this. Being a homemaker is absolutely a high effort job, and cleaning/daycare are hardly cheap. You also are right to point out the opportunity cost of not being in the workplace. These are interesting things to think about as I just don't think the matter is as black and white as some people might want to think.
    - kamaal 10y ago
      But that isn't what happened there. The wife quit the job on intention so that she could be eligible for free alimony pay from the husband. Why work and make a living, while you could skin this man alive and have him pay for you. This sort of behavior incentivizes divorce. Not that hard to play victim when you can get some one to pay for you all life, while you chill around beaches and make merry.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  > If one partner earns more and pays a disproportionate amount of the downpayment and mortgage on a house that both partners live in, is the house really only 1/2 theirs legally? Ethically? In a marriage, this is what you agree to, yes.
wastinglife123 10y ago
if this is to be "expected" then why would anyone get married in California? Can you imagine the psychological cost of paying for your ex-wife (who initiated the divorce and planned well in advance to maximize her financial position) to enjoy herself without working?
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  You're only focusing on the alimony part, but anyway, if the court says you owe alimony, then you do. If you later find out your ex isn't trying to find gainful employment, you can always have your lawyer try and get you out of alimony. Almost nobody should complain about paying child support[0] and 1/2 the house. Those are still responsibilities that need to be taken care of. [0] I left this open ended because there are (very rare) exceptions.

ryuker16 10y ago

you think he is telling you the whole story?

digler999 10y ago

> from India like my Dad was -- with 2 kids got divorced, and his all American white wife I wonder how much citizenship played into his decision to marry her originally ? In that case he would have been using her for a ticket on the "all american" gravy train.

sean_patel 10y ago
> I wonder how much citizenship played into his decision to marry her originally ? Nothing at all. In fact, he had already "earned" his Green Card by slaving for his Tech Employers for over 10 years. In his own words, it was "Love at 1st sight." Too bad it turned out this way. He says his Indian parents warned him against marrying a "Gori Ladkee" (i.e. white lady)

manarth 10y ago

> now he has to pay child-support and alimony and 1/2 their house As a Brit, I'm not all that familiar with the term "alimony", but the dictionary definition I've read says "a husband's or wife's court-ordered provision for a spouse after separation or divorce". Alimony appears to be a generic term for the total payment from one spouse to another, on divorce. Would that mean he's paying "child-support and 1/2 their house"? From the information given, that seems a fairly equitable split. Half the house, and a contribution towards his childrens' costs. OK, maybe he's the only one currently paying the mortgage, but in most circumstances, that would be a choice left to him: whether to keep his share (and equity) in the property, or sell it.

mahyarm 10y ago
Alimony is also known as 'spousal support'. It's a completely different payment independent from child support. You can only get alimony if your married. Child support can come up if your married or not and is based on how many children you have and your income levels. Your income can be imputed, which means your still on the hook even though you don't have that income level anymore. Child support is based on custody, which is a major reason why they turn very nasty in the USA/Canada. It also sounds like they have a 3rd payment requirement in paying the mortgage. I don't know if that is voluntary or court ordered. So this guy is paying 1. Spousal support 2. Child support 3. A mortgage I can see him in that case paying out more than %60 of his income and possibly going in debt or living in his car to cover the shortage.
bzbarsky 10y ago
Alimony is quite different from child support in US law. For one thing, child support ends once the kids are old enough. When and whether alimony payments end probably depends on the state...