4 ms·

>Don't put the blame on the developers. Too frequently they are put under huge pressure and cannot say "no" to their managers. Befehl ist Befehl. Blaming manag

>Don't put the blame on the developers. Too frequently they are put under huge pressure and cannot say "no" to their managers. Befehl ist Befehl. Blaming management is literally the Nuremberg defence. If we feel that we have to do reckless and dangerous things in order to keep our jobs, then we desperately need to unionise. It's just not good enough for us to throw up our hands and blame the PHBs. Management need to change, but they're not going to do it voluntarily. Pressure needs to come from users, but also from developers. We need to fight back against poor practices, as millions of workers have done in other industries. We're the guys on the shop floor, we're the people who know what the issues are and how to fix them. If we don't take a stand, nobody else will. How would we react if this story was about a plane crash or a nuclear accident caused by negligence? Would we be so quick to absolve employees of responsibility, or would we be asking why nobody blew the whistle?

Terr_ 10y ago
> Nuremberg defence Except we're not just talking about clearly malicious or fraudulent software with sins of commission. The bigger issue is cutting corners, taking shortcuts, and individual weaknesses that break the whole system.
- heisenbit 10y ago
  Successive and cumulative corner cutting. And management should provide oversight covering several steps. But often they close their eyes and the last developer who touched the code is getting the blame.
Spivak 10y ago
> Befehl ist Befehl. Blaming management is literally the Nuremberg defence. This isn't really about shifting blame or absolving responsibility. It is everyone's responsibility to ensure that safety and the public good are put first. If developers don't have the ability to say no to their management because there's no institution backing up that decision then we are to blame. I know it's a cynical world view but management will trade just about anything for profits and employees will compromise their principles for their livelihood. Hoping that this system of perverse incentives will correct itself internally using only the individual employee's right to resign far too hopeful for my taste.
hackuser 10y ago
> Pressure needs to come from users, but also from developers It needs to come from government especially. It's a basic function of government to protect the public > How would we react if this story was about a plane crash or a nuclear accident caused by negligence? If there were no government laws penalizing this outcome and regulations preventing it, I'd be horrified.
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  There are plenty of regulations covering software used in aircraft and nuclear power control. Move on to the next moral panic.
  - subway 10y ago
    Gee Bob, that did a helluva lot of good in preventing these folks from enduring undue legal hassles.

Terr_ 10y ago

> Nuremberg defence Except we're not just talking about clearly malicious or fraudulent software with sins of commission. The bigger issue is cutting corners, taking shortcuts, and individual weaknesses that break the whole system.

heisenbit 10y ago
Successive and cumulative corner cutting. And management should provide oversight covering several steps. But often they close their eyes and the last developer who touched the code is getting the blame.

Spivak 10y ago

> Befehl ist Befehl. Blaming management is literally the Nuremberg defence. This isn't really about shifting blame or absolving responsibility. It is everyone's responsibility to ensure that safety and the public good are put first. If developers don't have the ability to say no to their management because there's no institution backing up that decision then we are to blame. I know it's a cynical world view but management will trade just about anything for profits and employees will compromise their principles for their livelihood. Hoping that this system of perverse incentives will correct itself internally using only the individual employee's right to resign far too hopeful for my taste.

hackuser 10y ago

> Pressure needs to come from users, but also from developers It needs to come from government especially. It's a basic function of government to protect the public > How would we react if this story was about a plane crash or a nuclear accident caused by negligence? If there were no government laws penalizing this outcome and regulations preventing it, I'd be horrified.

CamperBob2 10y ago
There are plenty of regulations covering software used in aircraft and nuclear power control. Move on to the next moral panic.
- subway 10y ago
  Gee Bob, that did a helluva lot of good in preventing these folks from enduring undue legal hassles.