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Cyberwar? I still don't understand what that would be. Dueling TCP stacks? Bluetooth snipers? DDOS? The word gets used as if it's well defined, but I have

by pmb 16y ago

Cyberwar? I still don't understand what that would be. Dueling TCP stacks? Bluetooth snipers? DDOS? The word gets used as if it's well defined, but I have never heard a non-metaphorical description. "A war fought in cyberspace"? That means nothing. "A shootout on the info superhighway"? That means even less.

tptacek 16y ago
It's a stupid name for the non-stupid concept of paralyzing the economy and core productivity of first-world countries by shutting down power, comms, and markets.
- bediger 16y ago
  So, "cyberwar" can happen once (we fix stuff so the second time doesn't happen), and the cyberwar has to happen all at once, with no preliminary "skirmishes", and no warning "shots", otherwise, we fix stuff so it doesn't happen again. And yes, I've read about Titan Rain, Ghost Net, Operation Aurora, Coolswallow, Giving Wings to the Tiger, The Dark Visitor, Estonia's "Web War One" and more. All of this talk of "cyberwar" strikes me as merely a modern-day regurgitation of Cold War Boogie Man Stories, like Missile Gaps, and Bomber Gaps, Bears in the Forest, and Yellow Hordes, and stoic Spetznaz supermen. The emergent behavior seems to be lining up a successor magic funding word to "terrorism", should bin Laden die.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    I have no idea what "Titan rain", or most of the rest of your second graf, is. I only know how susceptible our commercial and industrial infrastructure is to attack, because people pay me to find flaws in the software running it.
jgg 16y ago
Amusingly enough, I found a page on RAND's site ( http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/RRR.fall95.cyber/cyberwar.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/RRR.fall9... ), where the definition of Cyberwar isn't anything unique enough to warrant a new label. I think it's just another (surprise!) stupid buzzword. Point in case: "Cyberwar refers to conducting military operations according to information-related principles. It means disrupting or destroying information and communications systems. It means trying to know everything about an adversary while keeping the adversary from knowing much about oneself. It means turning the "balance of information and knowledge" in one's favor, especially if the balance of forces is not. It means using knowledge so that less capital and labor may have to be expended."

by pmb 16y ago

tptacek 16y ago

It's a stupid name for the non-stupid concept of paralyzing the economy and core productivity of first-world countries by shutting down power, comms, and markets.

bediger 16y ago
So, "cyberwar" can happen once (we fix stuff so the second time doesn't happen), and the cyberwar has to happen all at once, with no preliminary "skirmishes", and no warning "shots", otherwise, we fix stuff so it doesn't happen again. And yes, I've read about Titan Rain, Ghost Net, Operation Aurora, Coolswallow, Giving Wings to the Tiger, The Dark Visitor, Estonia's "Web War One" and more. All of this talk of "cyberwar" strikes me as merely a modern-day regurgitation of Cold War Boogie Man Stories, like Missile Gaps, and Bomber Gaps, Bears in the Forest, and Yellow Hordes, and stoic Spetznaz supermen. The emergent behavior seems to be lining up a successor magic funding word to "terrorism", should bin Laden die.
- tptacek 16y ago
  I have no idea what "Titan rain", or most of the rest of your second graf, is. I only know how susceptible our commercial and industrial infrastructure is to attack, because people pay me to find flaws in the software running it.

jgg 16y ago

Amusingly enough, I found a page on RAND's site ( http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/RRR.fall95.cyber/cyberwar.html http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/RRR.fall9... ), where the definition of Cyberwar isn't anything unique enough to warrant a new label. I think it's just another (surprise!) stupid buzzword. Point in case: "Cyberwar refers to conducting military operations according to information-related principles. It means disrupting or destroying information and communications systems. It means trying to know everything about an adversary while keeping the adversary from knowing much about oneself. It means turning the "balance of information and knowledge" in one's favor, especially if the balance of forces is not. It means using knowledge so that less capital and labor may have to be expended."