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I would amend that to "don't put the blame solely on the developers". I've seen way too many developers whose mentality is "ship it, it seems good enough, we'll

I would amend that to "don't put the blame solely on the developers". I've seen way too many developers whose mentality is "ship it, it seems good enough, we'll fix any bugs as we go".

tener 10y ago
If the company culture is supporting this attitude, then sure - you will have developers saying that. But it isn't the developers that create that culture. This is something the management is responsible for.
- mseebach 10y ago
  Exactly. This is why bosses make the big bucks. Developers are just code-machines and they will perform poorly or well entirely dependent on their external environment and culture created by their management. (Oh, it's a one way thing, you say? Bosses are to blame for failure, but devs get credit for successes? Head I win, tails you lose?)
- FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
  The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility. This can be a difficult decision to make in these circumstances, but I just couldn't ship buggy code that may be responsible for someone being unfairly jailed. That's why I try to always document as much as possible in the workplace.
- CodeMage 10y ago
  People aren't computers, they don't just run the company culture program in their brains. Sure, developers are influenced by company culture, but they contribute to it as well. At one end of the spectrum, you have junior devs, fresh out of school, highly susceptible to the effects of company culture. At the other, you have senior devs with more than a decade of experience, who do a great deal to set the tone and shape the culture. Thank about what kind of cultural influence you get from a senior dev who has accumulated more than ten years of experience of moving fast and breaking things. That's a lesson that I found very hard to learn: just because someone has lots of experience and skill and knowledge, doesn't mean they are better developers. Mind you, I'm not saying the blame for the state of our industry lies solely with devs. I agree with you that it's the management that has the last word, but that doesn't absolve the rest of us of all responsibility.
  - tener 10y ago
    If you really care about it you can simply do "cultural screening": don't hire people that clearly don't match your attitude requirements. We are doing that. You can also discourage certain behaviors. If needed, fire offenders.
0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago
Even bringing developers (or anyone really) into it is like blaming the prisoners for having a dilemma. It's the nature of software that it does not fit inside one person's head, and this leads to problems.
tomjen3 10y ago
Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

I would amend that to "don't put the blame solely on the developers". I've seen way too many developers whose mentality is "ship it, it seems good enough, we'll fix any bugs as we go".

tener 10y ago

If the company culture is supporting this attitude, then sure - you will have developers saying that. But it isn't the developers that create that culture. This is something the management is responsible for.

mseebach 10y ago
Exactly. This is why bosses make the big bucks. Developers are just code-machines and they will perform poorly or well entirely dependent on their external environment and culture created by their management. (Oh, it's a one way thing, you say? Bosses are to blame for failure, but devs get credit for successes? Head I win, tails you lose?)
FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility. This can be a difficult decision to make in these circumstances, but I just couldn't ship buggy code that may be responsible for someone being unfairly jailed. That's why I try to always document as much as possible in the workplace.
CodeMage 10y ago
People aren't computers, they don't just run the company culture program in their brains. Sure, developers are influenced by company culture, but they contribute to it as well. At one end of the spectrum, you have junior devs, fresh out of school, highly susceptible to the effects of company culture. At the other, you have senior devs with more than a decade of experience, who do a great deal to set the tone and shape the culture. Thank about what kind of cultural influence you get from a senior dev who has accumulated more than ten years of experience of moving fast and breaking things. That's a lesson that I found very hard to learn: just because someone has lots of experience and skill and knowledge, doesn't mean they are better developers. Mind you, I'm not saying the blame for the state of our industry lies solely with devs. I agree with you that it's the management that has the last word, but that doesn't absolve the rest of us of all responsibility.
- tener 10y ago
  If you really care about it you can simply do "cultural screening": don't hire people that clearly don't match your attitude requirements. We are doing that. You can also discourage certain behaviors. If needed, fire offenders.

0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago

Even bringing developers (or anyone really) into it is like blaming the prisoners for having a dilemma. It's the nature of software that it does not fit inside one person's head, and this leads to problems.

tomjen3 10y ago

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.