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It should be considered that LEDs are now being used for lighting in situations where there used to be no lighting at all [1]. The potential energy savings we c

It should be considered that LEDs are now being used for lighting in situations where there used to be no lighting at all [1]. The potential energy savings we could realise with LEDs may be negated by an increase in lighting itself. This would be an example of Jevons' paradox [2]. [1] http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/10/led-light-cfl-b.html http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/10/led-light-cfl-b.html [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons's_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons's_paradox

Jill_the_Pill 10y ago
This is particularly true for increased outdoor night-lighting, which is harmful to wildlife: migrating birds, light-drawn insects and the bats that feed upon them, insects that require darkness to signal mates (fireflies), nocturnal prey-hunting animals, aquatic animals whose cycles are set to the lunar cycle -- as well as sleeping humans.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 10y ago
  Most of the LED street lighting and whatnot I've seen has been more directed than what it replaced. Light pollution has improved, generally. For a while the color temperature was terrible, but cheap and reliable warm phosphors have mostly fixed that. As for private outdoor lighting, I'm not sure that less cost really affects that. People that made poor lighting choices (too much, too cool, too much spill) don't do it because it's suddenly cheap. They just paid more before. The answer to this is likely some degree of local regulation.
dpark 10y ago
> LEDs are now being used for lighting in situations where there used to be no lighting at all While LED lights have certainly allowed for new applications, that article is nearly 10 years old and the future predicted has not come to pass. There has been no wave of LED-encrusted buildings. The roads don't glow. My bookshelves and whatnot don't either. If LEDs deliver a 10x improvement in energy use, we'll have to use 10x as much light to offset the energy gains. How likely is that?
- samstave 10y ago
  Have you been to Hong Kong or Beijing? Lots of led encrusted buildings.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    How many of those buildings had regular lights on them before?
    - samstave 10y ago
      Considering they are all relatively new construction, I doubt that any previous structures had them - this is a new, and awesome, phenomenon... I freaking love what Asia is doing with their urban environments... I just wish that the US developers would take note. We are building the tallest building in SF ("salesforce" tower) and its a mundane peice of shit building. Literally zero aesthetic innovation.
  - bdamm 10y ago
    True, but they're mostly decorative spots that hardly consume any light at all. Especially compared to old school flood lights that cast wide glows on sides of buildings.
- phillmv 10y ago
  >There has been no wave of LED-encrusted buildings. Lol. Give them time. Here's two examples off the top of my head, in my city: http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2015/07/aura-illuminates-downtown-night-lights-tested http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2015/07/aura-illuminates-downtow... http://canderelresidential.com/files/styles/building/public/developments/Ryan%20Fung_Designstor_RooftopExterior%202%20Lo%20Res.jpg http://canderelresidential.com/files/styles/building/public/...
  - goda90 10y ago
    I wish the trend was to reduce outdoor lights in cities instead of increasing them because it looks cool.
tyldum 10y ago
Same with heating. Heat pumps are increasingly popular in Norway since they will heat your house a lot cheaper than most of the alternatives. In reality people are increasing the temperature by 1-2 degrees Celsius instead of saving energy. Read the same thing about four wheel drive cars, where the added safety is eaten up by drivers taking increased risks. Interesting psychology.

Jill_the_Pill 10y ago

This is particularly true for increased outdoor night-lighting, which is harmful to wildlife: migrating birds, light-drawn insects and the bats that feed upon them, insects that require darkness to signal mates (fireflies), nocturnal prey-hunting animals, aquatic animals whose cycles are set to the lunar cycle -- as well as sleeping humans.

Obi_Juan_Kenobi 10y ago
Most of the LED street lighting and whatnot I've seen has been more directed than what it replaced. Light pollution has improved, generally. For a while the color temperature was terrible, but cheap and reliable warm phosphors have mostly fixed that. As for private outdoor lighting, I'm not sure that less cost really affects that. People that made poor lighting choices (too much, too cool, too much spill) don't do it because it's suddenly cheap. They just paid more before. The answer to this is likely some degree of local regulation.

dpark 10y ago

> LEDs are now being used for lighting in situations where there used to be no lighting at all While LED lights have certainly allowed for new applications, that article is nearly 10 years old and the future predicted has not come to pass. There has been no wave of LED-encrusted buildings. The roads don't glow. My bookshelves and whatnot don't either. If LEDs deliver a 10x improvement in energy use, we'll have to use 10x as much light to offset the energy gains. How likely is that?

samstave 10y ago
Have you been to Hong Kong or Beijing? Lots of led encrusted buildings.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  How many of those buildings had regular lights on them before?
  - samstave 10y ago
    Considering they are all relatively new construction, I doubt that any previous structures had them - this is a new, and awesome, phenomenon... I freaking love what Asia is doing with their urban environments... I just wish that the US developers would take note. We are building the tallest building in SF ("salesforce" tower) and its a mundane peice of shit building. Literally zero aesthetic innovation.
- bdamm 10y ago
  True, but they're mostly decorative spots that hardly consume any light at all. Especially compared to old school flood lights that cast wide glows on sides of buildings.
phillmv 10y ago
>There has been no wave of LED-encrusted buildings. Lol. Give them time. Here's two examples off the top of my head, in my city: http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2015/07/aura-illuminates-downtown-night-lights-tested http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2015/07/aura-illuminates-downtow... http://canderelresidential.com/files/styles/building/public/developments/Ryan%20Fung_Designstor_RooftopExterior%202%20Lo%20Res.jpg http://canderelresidential.com/files/styles/building/public/...
- goda90 10y ago
  I wish the trend was to reduce outdoor lights in cities instead of increasing them because it looks cool.

tyldum 10y ago

Same with heating. Heat pumps are increasingly popular in Norway since they will heat your house a lot cheaper than most of the alternatives. In reality people are increasing the temperature by 1-2 degrees Celsius instead of saving energy. Read the same thing about four wheel drive cars, where the added safety is eaten up by drivers taking increased risks. Interesting psychology.