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Based on the wikipedia article it looks like Jacob Schiff funded the Russian Revolution because he was Jewish, and disliked the anti-Semitism of the Tzarist reg

Based on the wikipedia article it looks like Jacob Schiff funded the Russian Revolution because he was Jewish, and disliked the anti-Semitism of the Tzarist regime. As the article discusses, he funded the Japanese side in the Russo-Japanese war for the same reason. Given this I don't think it makes sense to say that the Russian Revolution was funded by "Wall St." but rather that it was supported by a wealthy Jewish American who opposed the Tzarist regime.

idlewords 10y ago
The entire Schiff connection is bogus, and you'll see that the sites that talk about him tend to be one click away from outright anti-semitic conspiracy pages.
- kapitza 10y ago
  Schiff and many Americans were definitely involved in funding Russian revolutionaries -- that was quite a common thing. The posthumous memoirs of Samuel Harper, a Rockefeller man and one of the founding figures of Slavic studies in the US, are quite frank on this point. Not online, but I recall an anecdote about some little old lady in Chicago writing a check and saying "I hope this one pays for the bomb that blows up the Czar!" https://www.amazon.com/Russia-Believe-Memoirs-Samuel-Harper/dp/1162802030 https://www.amazon.com/Russia-Believe-Memoirs-Samuel-Harper/... Your second point is entirely correct. However, they're not one click away from "Haven Monahan", yet another Fidel eulogy, Trump as the puppet of Putin, etc. You can't possibly think it's this easy to have a clue? A nice factual fact, by the way, is Averell Harriman's giant manganese concession in Georgia in the '20s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiatura_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiatura_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Averell_Harriman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Averell_Harriman Giant holes in the ground are hard to sweep under the rug...
  - idlewords 10y ago
    The topic of American capitalists running huge factories in the USSR in the 20's is absolutely fascinating, and I'm glad you linked to it here. But it is entirely separate from what the parent comment is trying to say. With respect to financing the Bolsheviks, I don't dispute that Americans did it. My issue is with the insinuation that Wall Street Jews were the puppetmasters, which is where this stuff leads. Nobody did more to help the Bolshevik cause than Germany, by allowing Lenin to cross their territory in a sealed train during a world war. The rest was luck, ruthlessness, and quickly broken promises.
    - kapitza 10y ago
      As Jennings Wise (a legitimate historian from the '30s, his Wilson biography is quite good) said: "Historians must never forget that Woodrow Wilson, despite the efforts of the British police, made it possible for Leon Trotsky to enter Russia with an American passport." The Germans were not exactly in a position to promote the Bolshevik cause in 1919 (eg, at the proposed Prinkipo conference). Or in point 6 of the Fourteen Points. The top thread above is giving the Soviet (and American) party-line interpretation of the American "anti-Bolshevik" intervention in the Russian Civil War. Actually if you read enough primary docs (for instance, the memoir of Graves, who commanded the Siberian force) it quickly becomes clear that the actual goal of the policy was to sandbag the Whites (and, in Siberia, also the Japanese). The American forces involved are all full of bureaucratic duplicity and all swear up, down, left and sideways that they're enemies of godless Bolshevism. And some of them actually are. "this stuff leads" -- sure. And reading the NYT leads to Castro-worship, "hands up, don't shoot," Haven Monahan, and other fake news of a sinister persuasion. If you let it. Wise's Wilson book is quite good. It was written in 1937. The only people who care about it today are anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists. So what? Who cares? They will all die, and the book will still be there. It's a book. https://archive.org/details/WoodrowWilsonJenningsCWise https://archive.org/details/WoodrowWilsonJenningsCWise (This is a badly transcribed bootleg.)
    - farright 10y ago
      I don't see what it is in my comment that you disagree with. I was only pointing out that Schiff funded the Bolsheviks because of his political views that were related to bring an American Jew. And there seems to be plenty of evidence in the Wikipedia article for that asking. I never made the claim that Schiff was particularly important. Can you point to something specifically in my post that if incorrect?
      - idlewords 10y ago
        I'm responding to the original comment, which refers to "the key role of Jacob Schiff". Your comment seems to begin and end with a Wikipedia article you just read.
  - kafkaesq 10y ago
    Trump as a puppet of Putin, etc. Outright puppet, no. But an unwitting accomplice, arguably so. Or per the hackneyed (but useful) saying: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
nikolay 10y ago
Jacob Schiff and his clique were most of what Wall St. was at that time.

idlewords 10y ago

The entire Schiff connection is bogus, and you'll see that the sites that talk about him tend to be one click away from outright anti-semitic conspiracy pages.

kapitza 10y ago
Schiff and many Americans were definitely involved in funding Russian revolutionaries -- that was quite a common thing. The posthumous memoirs of Samuel Harper, a Rockefeller man and one of the founding figures of Slavic studies in the US, are quite frank on this point. Not online, but I recall an anecdote about some little old lady in Chicago writing a check and saying "I hope this one pays for the bomb that blows up the Czar!" https://www.amazon.com/Russia-Believe-Memoirs-Samuel-Harper/dp/1162802030 https://www.amazon.com/Russia-Believe-Memoirs-Samuel-Harper/... Your second point is entirely correct. However, they're not one click away from "Haven Monahan", yet another Fidel eulogy, Trump as the puppet of Putin, etc. You can't possibly think it's this easy to have a clue? A nice factual fact, by the way, is Averell Harriman's giant manganese concession in Georgia in the '20s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiatura_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiatura_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Averell_Harriman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Averell_Harriman Giant holes in the ground are hard to sweep under the rug...
- idlewords 10y ago
  The topic of American capitalists running huge factories in the USSR in the 20's is absolutely fascinating, and I'm glad you linked to it here. But it is entirely separate from what the parent comment is trying to say. With respect to financing the Bolsheviks, I don't dispute that Americans did it. My issue is with the insinuation that Wall Street Jews were the puppetmasters, which is where this stuff leads. Nobody did more to help the Bolshevik cause than Germany, by allowing Lenin to cross their territory in a sealed train during a world war. The rest was luck, ruthlessness, and quickly broken promises.
  - kapitza 10y ago
    As Jennings Wise (a legitimate historian from the '30s, his Wilson biography is quite good) said: "Historians must never forget that Woodrow Wilson, despite the efforts of the British police, made it possible for Leon Trotsky to enter Russia with an American passport." The Germans were not exactly in a position to promote the Bolshevik cause in 1919 (eg, at the proposed Prinkipo conference). Or in point 6 of the Fourteen Points. The top thread above is giving the Soviet (and American) party-line interpretation of the American "anti-Bolshevik" intervention in the Russian Civil War. Actually if you read enough primary docs (for instance, the memoir of Graves, who commanded the Siberian force) it quickly becomes clear that the actual goal of the policy was to sandbag the Whites (and, in Siberia, also the Japanese). The American forces involved are all full of bureaucratic duplicity and all swear up, down, left and sideways that they're enemies of godless Bolshevism. And some of them actually are. "this stuff leads" -- sure. And reading the NYT leads to Castro-worship, "hands up, don't shoot," Haven Monahan, and other fake news of a sinister persuasion. If you let it. Wise's Wilson book is quite good. It was written in 1937. The only people who care about it today are anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists. So what? Who cares? They will all die, and the book will still be there. It's a book. https://archive.org/details/WoodrowWilsonJenningsCWise https://archive.org/details/WoodrowWilsonJenningsCWise (This is a badly transcribed bootleg.)
  - farright 10y ago
    I don't see what it is in my comment that you disagree with. I was only pointing out that Schiff funded the Bolsheviks because of his political views that were related to bring an American Jew. And there seems to be plenty of evidence in the Wikipedia article for that asking. I never made the claim that Schiff was particularly important. Can you point to something specifically in my post that if incorrect?
    - idlewords 10y ago
      I'm responding to the original comment, which refers to "the key role of Jacob Schiff". Your comment seems to begin and end with a Wikipedia article you just read.
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  Trump as a puppet of Putin, etc. Outright puppet, no. But an unwitting accomplice, arguably so. Or per the hackneyed (but useful) saying: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

nikolay 10y ago

Jacob Schiff and his clique were most of what Wall St. was at that time.