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> can refer to any other war effort that benefitted anyone else than the wall street (or domino theorists in Washington) Let's see... 1) The First and Second

> can refer to any other war effort that benefitted anyone else than the wall street (or domino theorists in Washington) Let's see... 1) The First and Second Barbary Wars probably qualify, seeing as they predate both. But more to the point, I suspect they benefited lots of people outside of the US in general. 2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Sea_Anti-Piracy_Operations_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Sea_Anti-Piracy_Operati... -- or does that not count as a war? 3) I assume you're not going to count the US Civil War? 4) Pretty sure the US involvement in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Rus... didn't benefit Wall Street, though it's not clear it really benefited anyone else, other than the Czechoslovak Legion, of course. Or would this count as a "UN sanctioned peace action" albeit in pre-UN days, given the number of countries involved? 5) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Lebanon_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Lebanon_crisis -- at first glance the US intervention prevented things degenerating into a more serious civil war. Or is this something that you think only benefited domino theorists? 6) I don't know enough about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_insurgency_in_Thailand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_insurgency_in_Thaila... to tell whether it would count here, but I do think it benefited at least the Thai government. 7) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaba_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaba_II 8) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_in_Lebanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_in_Lebanon is a weird one, in that it's not clear that it really _benefited_ anyone in the end, but it was certainly not aiming to benefit domino theorists or Wall Street and as far as I can tell wasn't really UN-sanctioned, but was a peacekeeping mission. 9) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada -- or are you going to call this something to benefit domino theorists? The outcome (democratic elections, the day of the invasion being considered a national holiday in Grenada now) suggests that maybe the Grenadans benefited. Note that this one was _condemned_ by the UN. 10) Intervention in Kosovo in 1998/9. This was not UN-sanctioned. Pretty sure neither Wall Street nor domino theorists (what dominos?) benefited. > Also, I'm not accounting UN sanctioned peace actions. So just to be clear, specifically not counting the Korean War, the 1990-91 Gulf War, intervention in the Somali Civil War, intervention in Haiti in the mid-90s, Bosnia around the same time, Libya in 2011, right? Anything I missed?

fsloth 10y ago
Thanks! That's a great list of refences to go through. I actually wanted to have objective references and not just bash the US command. I should have placed more emphasis on the stabilizing US actions and not just sheath them under the "UN mandate" phrase. A few comments: 1) & 2) The anti-piracy operations were a nice example of a stabilizing strategy. 3) Civil wars are generally considered internal matters 4) Businesses operating within the allied sphere had vested commercial interests in Russia, see for example http://www.branobelhistory.com/themes/the-branobel-company/The-oil-companies-merge/ http://www.branobelhistory.com/themes/the-branobel-company/T... - which the Bolshevik faction threatened 5) & 8) - Yeah, post Ottoman Middle East is a major fuck up. No idea who benefitted whom there. 6) I have no familiarity with the matter but supporting anti-communist forces within a country would fall under the "dominoes..." template if I had to be brash about forming a quick opinion 7) That's tiny. Yeah, probably under "stabilizing action" just like 1,2. But, no idea really. 9) That's US security more than anything, they were afraid Cuba and Soviet Union would hold Grenada as a forward base - I have to call "dominoes" on that Of the uncounted: Korean war - while I'm sure South Korean prefer the current situation, having an economy boosted by vested US interests - from the point of view of US was about holding Soviet Union at bay. Dominoes. Gulf war. Oil. Oil. Oil oil oil. Street. Somali civil war was an attempt at a stabilizing action. Haiti - http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/haiti-us-occupation-hundred-year-anniversary http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/haiti-us-occupation-... - given the history of US involvement in Haiti I'm sure the 90's intervention was among the most benevolent of them Bosnia- it's the stabilizing action for which I have to commend the US the most (and am stupefied to this day of the European incompetence in military matters). Libya - yeah, that did not go so well for anyone.
- bzbarsky 10y ago
  What's interesting to me, and shouldn't be surprising, is that there are domino-theory wars like Korea that at least the South Koreans feel benefited them, and then there are domino-theory wars that didn't really benefit people much. And there are UN-sanctioned things that turned out well, and then there are things like Libya. And the hard part is telling up front which situation you're in... Note that I left off a _long_ list of US military involvement that could not possibly be considered to benefit anything other than maybe US expansion or US business interests. I just listed the ones that might have fit your criteria.

fsloth 10y ago

Thanks! That's a great list of refences to go through. I actually wanted to have objective references and not just bash the US command. I should have placed more emphasis on the stabilizing US actions and not just sheath them under the "UN mandate" phrase. A few comments: 1) & 2) The anti-piracy operations were a nice example of a stabilizing strategy. 3) Civil wars are generally considered internal matters 4) Businesses operating within the allied sphere had vested commercial interests in Russia, see for example http://www.branobelhistory.com/themes/the-branobel-company/The-oil-companies-merge/ http://www.branobelhistory.com/themes/the-branobel-company/T... - which the Bolshevik faction threatened 5) & 8) - Yeah, post Ottoman Middle East is a major fuck up. No idea who benefitted whom there. 6) I have no familiarity with the matter but supporting anti-communist forces within a country would fall under the "dominoes..." template if I had to be brash about forming a quick opinion 7) That's tiny. Yeah, probably under "stabilizing action" just like 1,2. But, no idea really. 9) That's US security more than anything, they were afraid Cuba and Soviet Union would hold Grenada as a forward base - I have to call "dominoes" on that Of the uncounted: Korean war - while I'm sure South Korean prefer the current situation, having an economy boosted by vested US interests - from the point of view of US was about holding Soviet Union at bay. Dominoes. Gulf war. Oil. Oil. Oil oil oil. Street. Somali civil war was an attempt at a stabilizing action. Haiti - http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/haiti-us-occupation-hundred-year-anniversary http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/haiti-us-occupation-... - given the history of US involvement in Haiti I'm sure the 90's intervention was among the most benevolent of them Bosnia- it's the stabilizing action for which I have to commend the US the most (and am stupefied to this day of the European incompetence in military matters). Libya - yeah, that did not go so well for anyone.

bzbarsky 10y ago
What's interesting to me, and shouldn't be surprising, is that there are domino-theory wars like Korea that at least the South Koreans feel benefited them, and then there are domino-theory wars that didn't really benefit people much. And there are UN-sanctioned things that turned out well, and then there are things like Libya. And the hard part is telling up front which situation you're in... Note that I left off a _long_ list of US military involvement that could not possibly be considered to benefit anything other than maybe US expansion or US business interests. I just listed the ones that might have fit your criteria.