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One of the reasons why I'm optimistic for a Donald Trump presidency is that finally Americas ugly policies have an ugly face to go with them. Every single one o

by wz1000 10y ago

One of the reasons why I'm optimistic for a Donald Trump presidency is that finally Americas ugly policies have an ugly face to go with them. Every single one of Americas Presidents, from Obama to Reagan, JFK to both Bushes all maintained a veneer of respectability and decency. All of them cultivated a diplomatic and "statemanlike" appearance, all while continuing absolutely barbaric foreign policies designed to maintain American hegemony and appease industrial interests, no matter what the cost. Trump, on the other hand, refuses to play by this charade and indeed "tells it like it is". American foreign policy can hardly become more profit-centered and evil than it has been post WWII, but I predict we will see a resurgence of voices critical towards it in the coming years because Trump places no effort in hiding behind pretty words and a wall of PR. The ugliness of American actions will now be apparent for all to see.

micaksica 10y ago
> American foreign policy can hardly become more profit-centered and evil than it has been post WWII, but I predict we will see a resurgence of voices critical towards it in the coming years because Trump places no effort in hiding behind pretty words and a wall of PR. The ugliness of American actions will now be apparent for all to see. Critical voices from where? Outside the United States?
- sooheon 10y ago
  Anywhere critical thought exists, I would hope? Why draw geographic borders on what is hopefully a universal phenomenon, the ability to be critical?
delbel 10y ago
I'm curious, would the #DraftOurDaughters counter-Clinton campaign meme be an example of what you are talking about? Hopefully you are familiar with that, if not Clinton openly spoke about escalating some ugly potential all out war situations, and some very smart meme artist linked it to the reality of a draft for women.
haydenlee 10y ago
It can extremely easily be more "evil" than it has been. If the USA instated a policy to wipe out all people of a certain race, that would be much more evil than anything it has done post-WWII right?
- wz1000 10y ago
  The US will tolerate and lend its support to almost any group, no matter how "evil", provided it benefits American aims and objectives. Take your example. While the US has not directly committed genocide, it has supported and aided many such groups responsible for genocide. Open declaration of genocidal policies by the US will face widespread international opposition and impact American business interests, and hence the US would never do so as long as this holds A few examples of the US being supportive of genocide: Anti-communist Indonesia was considered a valuable ally to the US in SE Asia, especially because Indonesia controlled deep water straits of vital strategic importance. Ford and Kissinger explicitly granted Indonesia approval to invade East Timor and supplied Indonesia with arms to those ends. Kissinger urged Suharto, the Indonesian premier at the time, to quickly take care of his "business", so that international scrutiny on the American-made arms involved could be avoided. The US sent millions of dollars as military aid to Indonesia at the height of the East Timor genocide, which claimed almost 200,000 lives. There are even many credible reports of American mercenaries and American pilots being involved at the height of the violence. A former US Ambassador to the UN has admitted to being charged with making sure whatever resolution the UN passed condemning Indonesian actions be completely ineffectual in whatever measures it took. During the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War, when it was clear to Pakistan that it was going to lose, Pakistan pursued a scorched earth policy of destruction and genocide. In the words of a US official under Nixon, "It is the most incredible, calculated thing since the days of the Nazis in Poland". However, Pakistan was a valuable American ally and was backed by the US in this war, so Nixon and Kissinger actively worked to suppress evidence of genocide, even though it was made clear to them by US officials on the scene that this was exactly what was happening. After widespread outcry in the US about Pakistani actions, Nixon continued to secretly shuttle funds and arms to Pakistan. After the war, the US initially refused to recognize Bangladesh as a country and establish trade relations with it because Bangladesh wanted to prosecute Pakistani generals responsible for genocide, which claimed an estimated 2.5-3 million lives. Clinton himself admitted fault for the '94 Rwandan genocide, responsible for an estimated 800,000 deaths. Clintons adminstration was aware of the plans to "eliminate all Tutsis", but didn't want to take action as it was not beneficial to US interests at the time, and so actively worked to suppress evidence of genocide presented to international forums in order to justify US inaction. The US continued to back Guatemalan forces after evidence of genocide and massacres committed by them had become amply clear. These were committed under a US backed government installed after the US had staged a coup at the behest of the United Fruit Company to get rid of the previous, democratically elected, socialist President.

by wz1000 10y ago

micaksica 10y ago

> American foreign policy can hardly become more profit-centered and evil than it has been post WWII, but I predict we will see a resurgence of voices critical towards it in the coming years because Trump places no effort in hiding behind pretty words and a wall of PR. The ugliness of American actions will now be apparent for all to see. Critical voices from where? Outside the United States?

sooheon 10y ago
Anywhere critical thought exists, I would hope? Why draw geographic borders on what is hopefully a universal phenomenon, the ability to be critical?

delbel 10y ago

I'm curious, would the #DraftOurDaughters counter-Clinton campaign meme be an example of what you are talking about? Hopefully you are familiar with that, if not Clinton openly spoke about escalating some ugly potential all out war situations, and some very smart meme artist linked it to the reality of a draft for women.

haydenlee 10y ago

It can extremely easily be more "evil" than it has been. If the USA instated a policy to wipe out all people of a certain race, that would be much more evil than anything it has done post-WWII right?

wz1000 10y ago
The US will tolerate and lend its support to almost any group, no matter how "evil", provided it benefits American aims and objectives. Take your example. While the US has not directly committed genocide, it has supported and aided many such groups responsible for genocide. Open declaration of genocidal policies by the US will face widespread international opposition and impact American business interests, and hence the US would never do so as long as this holds A few examples of the US being supportive of genocide: Anti-communist Indonesia was considered a valuable ally to the US in SE Asia, especially because Indonesia controlled deep water straits of vital strategic importance. Ford and Kissinger explicitly granted Indonesia approval to invade East Timor and supplied Indonesia with arms to those ends. Kissinger urged Suharto, the Indonesian premier at the time, to quickly take care of his "business", so that international scrutiny on the American-made arms involved could be avoided. The US sent millions of dollars as military aid to Indonesia at the height of the East Timor genocide, which claimed almost 200,000 lives. There are even many credible reports of American mercenaries and American pilots being involved at the height of the violence. A former US Ambassador to the UN has admitted to being charged with making sure whatever resolution the UN passed condemning Indonesian actions be completely ineffectual in whatever measures it took. During the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War, when it was clear to Pakistan that it was going to lose, Pakistan pursued a scorched earth policy of destruction and genocide. In the words of a US official under Nixon, "It is the most incredible, calculated thing since the days of the Nazis in Poland". However, Pakistan was a valuable American ally and was backed by the US in this war, so Nixon and Kissinger actively worked to suppress evidence of genocide, even though it was made clear to them by US officials on the scene that this was exactly what was happening. After widespread outcry in the US about Pakistani actions, Nixon continued to secretly shuttle funds and arms to Pakistan. After the war, the US initially refused to recognize Bangladesh as a country and establish trade relations with it because Bangladesh wanted to prosecute Pakistani generals responsible for genocide, which claimed an estimated 2.5-3 million lives. Clinton himself admitted fault for the '94 Rwandan genocide, responsible for an estimated 800,000 deaths. Clintons adminstration was aware of the plans to "eliminate all Tutsis", but didn't want to take action as it was not beneficial to US interests at the time, and so actively worked to suppress evidence of genocide presented to international forums in order to justify US inaction. The US continued to back Guatemalan forces after evidence of genocide and massacres committed by them had become amply clear. These were committed under a US backed government installed after the US had staged a coup at the behest of the United Fruit Company to get rid of the previous, democratically elected, socialist President.