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this is extraordinary i say this for several reasons. One, Smedley D Butler is one of perhaps just three former US Marines universally regarded as demi-gods (t

this is extraordinary i say this for several reasons. One, Smedley D Butler is one of perhaps just three former US Marines universally regarded as demi-gods (the other two are Sgt. Dan Daly and Gen. Chesty Puller). Their official photographs are everywhere, and statement alleged to have been made by them are quoted like scripture among active duty marines. Gen Butler aside from attaining the rank of major general, was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor--twice. (Sgt. Daly, my personal hero, had two as well and a Navy Cross, the second-highest award in the USMC, equivalent to the Army's DSC; Chesty had no MoH, just five Navy Crosses, which is still pretty good). So here he is at the end of his superb 33-year career, writing a book in which he declares that war is a Racket. And by "Racket" he is clearly using the term in the precise sense: "[a] service that is fraudulently offered to solve a problem, such as for a problem that does not actually exist, that will not be put into effect, or that would not otherwise exist if the racket did not exist."--in other words, what organized crime does. > "Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints." from the OP (a except from the Book, which in turn was based on a speech given by Butler two years prior): "I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers." Needless to say, i never heard about this book while serving in the USMC as a Sergeant. second, this book was published in 1935--Gen Butler's indictment pre-dates not just the Vietnam War but WW II.

Natsu 10y ago
There's been a fairly recent leak of evidence regarding this--the Yemen files: https://wikileaks.org/yemen-files/ https://wikileaks.org/yemen-files/
fsloth 10y ago
"this is extraordinary" I thought this was well understood as well as documented? For example, Chomsky has been speaking about this for decades and his message seems to be fact based. At least as a non-US citizen, the only war I'm happy about US participated was WW2[0]. This is not to say anything about the mere military pressure US has applied but only of active campaigns. Also, I'm not accounting UN sanctioned peace actions. As a professional soldier, if you can refer to any other war effort that benefitted anyone else than the wall street (or domino theorists in Washington) I will gladly do research on them. [0] (for not allowing Soviet Union to dominate Europe - although, a great portion of their war effort was fought with US supplies so maybe third reich and Soviet Union would have just beaten each other to death).
- sooheon 10y ago
  My home country, South Korea, has benefitted from our interests being aligned with those of "domino theorists in Washington". There is now a country of ~50 million with a starkly different life from those in the north.
  - bzbarsky 10y ago
    fsloth would claim that this was a "UN sanctioned peace action", I bet. ;)
    - fsloth 10y ago
      Hardly. I'm trying to have a discussion, not persuade anyone of my potentially faulty view of history. I was thinking of former Yogoslavia foremost when I added the UN sanctioned piece action.
      - bzbarsky 10y ago
        Well, the Korean War _was_ a UN sanctioned peace action. Mostly by accident, because the USSR was boycotting the UN for a few months there and so failed to veto the resolution.
- bzbarsky 10y ago
  > can refer to any other war effort that benefitted anyone else than the wall street (or domino theorists in Washington) Let's see... 1) The First and Second Barbary Wars probably qualify, seeing as they predate both. But more to the point, I suspect they benefited lots of people outside of the US in general. 2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Sea_Anti-Piracy_Operations_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Sea_Anti-Piracy_Operati... -- or does that not count as a war? 3) I assume you're not going to count the US Civil War? 4) Pretty sure the US involvement in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Rus... didn't benefit Wall Street, though it's not clear it really benefited anyone else, other than the Czechoslovak Legion, of course. Or would this count as a "UN sanctioned peace action" albeit in pre-UN days, given the number of countries involved? 5) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Lebanon_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Lebanon_crisis -- at first glance the US intervention prevented things degenerating into a more serious civil war. Or is this something that you think only benefited domino theorists? 6) I don't know enough about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_insurgency_in_Thailand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_insurgency_in_Thaila... to tell whether it would count here, but I do think it benefited at least the Thai government. 7) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaba_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaba_II 8) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_in_Lebanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_in_Lebanon is a weird one, in that it's not clear that it really _benefited_ anyone in the end, but it was certainly not aiming to benefit domino theorists or Wall Street and as far as I can tell wasn't really UN-sanctioned, but was a peacekeeping mission. 9) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada -- or are you going to call this something to benefit domino theorists? The outcome (democratic elections, the day of the invasion being considered a national holiday in Grenada now) suggests that maybe the Grenadans benefited. Note that this one was _condemned_ by the UN. 10) Intervention in Kosovo in 1998/9. This was not UN-sanctioned. Pretty sure neither Wall Street nor domino theorists (what dominos?) benefited. > Also, I'm not accounting UN sanctioned peace actions. So just to be clear, specifically not counting the Korean War, the 1990-91 Gulf War, intervention in the Somali Civil War, intervention in Haiti in the mid-90s, Bosnia around the same time, Libya in 2011, right? Anything I missed?
DanielBMarkham 10y ago
S/F fellow devil dog :) Gen Butler's indictment pre-dates not just the Vietnam War but WW II Yeah, it goes as far back as you like. This is a great thesis, but people are viewing it as presenting a dichotomy by focusing on one side of the equation. War is a racket. It's also necessary at times. Both things are true. The reason why we don't keep standing armies around and create huge military-industrial complexes around war is that the racket side of things tends to take over.
- zentiggr 10y ago
  F-35 anyone?
CrossWired 10y ago
> Needless to say, i never heard about this book while serving in the USMC as a Sergeant. Nor did I, but why we be told about a book that questions the purpose of everything we were being asked to do? Also, Semper Fi devil!

Natsu 10y ago

There's been a fairly recent leak of evidence regarding this--the Yemen files: https://wikileaks.org/yemen-files/ https://wikileaks.org/yemen-files/

fsloth 10y ago

"this is extraordinary" I thought this was well understood as well as documented? For example, Chomsky has been speaking about this for decades and his message seems to be fact based. At least as a non-US citizen, the only war I'm happy about US participated was WW2[0]. This is not to say anything about the mere military pressure US has applied but only of active campaigns. Also, I'm not accounting UN sanctioned peace actions. As a professional soldier, if you can refer to any other war effort that benefitted anyone else than the wall street (or domino theorists in Washington) I will gladly do research on them. [0] (for not allowing Soviet Union to dominate Europe - although, a great portion of their war effort was fought with US supplies so maybe third reich and Soviet Union would have just beaten each other to death).

sooheon 10y ago
My home country, South Korea, has benefitted from our interests being aligned with those of "domino theorists in Washington". There is now a country of ~50 million with a starkly different life from those in the north.
- bzbarsky 10y ago
  fsloth would claim that this was a "UN sanctioned peace action", I bet. ;)
  - fsloth 10y ago
    Hardly. I'm trying to have a discussion, not persuade anyone of my potentially faulty view of history. I was thinking of former Yogoslavia foremost when I added the UN sanctioned piece action.
    - bzbarsky 10y ago
      Well, the Korean War _was_ a UN sanctioned peace action. Mostly by accident, because the USSR was boycotting the UN for a few months there and so failed to veto the resolution.
bzbarsky 10y ago
> can refer to any other war effort that benefitted anyone else than the wall street (or domino theorists in Washington) Let's see... 1) The First and Second Barbary Wars probably qualify, seeing as they predate both. But more to the point, I suspect they benefited lots of people outside of the US in general. 2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Sea_Anti-Piracy_Operations_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Sea_Anti-Piracy_Operati... -- or does that not count as a war? 3) I assume you're not going to count the US Civil War? 4) Pretty sure the US involvement in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Rus... didn't benefit Wall Street, though it's not clear it really benefited anyone else, other than the Czechoslovak Legion, of course. Or would this count as a "UN sanctioned peace action" albeit in pre-UN days, given the number of countries involved? 5) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Lebanon_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Lebanon_crisis -- at first glance the US intervention prevented things degenerating into a more serious civil war. Or is this something that you think only benefited domino theorists? 6) I don't know enough about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_insurgency_in_Thailand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_insurgency_in_Thaila... to tell whether it would count here, but I do think it benefited at least the Thai government. 7) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaba_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaba_II 8) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_in_Lebanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_in_Lebanon is a weird one, in that it's not clear that it really _benefited_ anyone in the end, but it was certainly not aiming to benefit domino theorists or Wall Street and as far as I can tell wasn't really UN-sanctioned, but was a peacekeeping mission. 9) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada -- or are you going to call this something to benefit domino theorists? The outcome (democratic elections, the day of the invasion being considered a national holiday in Grenada now) suggests that maybe the Grenadans benefited. Note that this one was _condemned_ by the UN. 10) Intervention in Kosovo in 1998/9. This was not UN-sanctioned. Pretty sure neither Wall Street nor domino theorists (what dominos?) benefited. > Also, I'm not accounting UN sanctioned peace actions. So just to be clear, specifically not counting the Korean War, the 1990-91 Gulf War, intervention in the Somali Civil War, intervention in Haiti in the mid-90s, Bosnia around the same time, Libya in 2011, right? Anything I missed?

DanielBMarkham 10y ago

S/F fellow devil dog :) Gen Butler's indictment pre-dates not just the Vietnam War but WW II Yeah, it goes as far back as you like. This is a great thesis, but people are viewing it as presenting a dichotomy by focusing on one side of the equation. War is a racket. It's also necessary at times. Both things are true. The reason why we don't keep standing armies around and create huge military-industrial complexes around war is that the racket side of things tends to take over.

zentiggr 10y ago
F-35 anyone?

CrossWired 10y ago

> Needless to say, i never heard about this book while serving in the USMC as a Sergeant. Nor did I, but why we be told about a book that questions the purpose of everything we were being asked to do? Also, Semper Fi devil!