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This is a good way to acrue massive, immediate backlash on HN. Calling alt-righters out for being neonazis and reminding people that hate speech isn't free spee

by legodt 10y ago

This is a good way to acrue massive, immediate backlash on HN. Calling alt-righters out for being neonazis and reminding people that hate speech isn't free speech is apparently over the line for a subset of users here.

throwanem 10y ago
Arrant falsehood does tend to gravel people, I suppose. I'm not sure what anyone expects to gain by doubling down on the goodthink echo chamber that's just lost them an election. Emotional comfort, perhaps? I'm not without sympathy for the need - but that's a private matter. Governance in the US is public, and refusing to engage in the process merely cedes the field. Demonizing one's political opponents not only cedes the field but energizes them with just resentment, and I should think the events of this past month should suffice anyone as a lesson in why that might not be the best of all available tactics - but perhaps I extend more credit than due.
- leephillips 10y ago
  What falsehoods are you referring to? I'm not that familiar with what's going on on Reddit; but alt-right is in fact just a stupid name for neo-Nazi (as recently codified in the AP style guide).
- sanswork 10y ago
  The idea that the other side has a valid opinion just because they won is stupid. A lot of believes don't deserve any respect at all. The constant posts of "You lost because you didn't listen" are silly. The left lost because Donald lied about important things to a lot of people who are desperate for his lies to be true. The only way he holds support is by continuing to lie and blame it on others once he takes power.
- fnovd 10y ago
  "One wonders if these people are people at all, or instead soulless golem"[1] The rise of neonazism in the US is real. To claim otherwise, to imply that it is an "arrant falsehood," is to be purposefully ignorant. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-LnO2DOGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-LnO2DOGE
  - internaut 10y ago
    Spencer was being deliberately provocative. He knows the media will only play a handful of sound bites to spin their tales, so he gave it to them on a platter to achieve maximum coverage. And it worked. He is now the Great Satan, which apparently means lots of long interviews with major television and radio stations. For clarity, that quote is referring to journalists and the media. Not Jews, as some have been heavily implying. I'd like to remind people here that this is exactly Trump's playbook. You infuriate people, they are eager to take you out of context or extrapolate wildly, then curious passersby figure your accusers are not credible. It's not a high moral ground tactic, but it sure works.
    - fnovd 10y ago
      >For clarity, that quote is referring to journalists and the media. Not Jews, as some have been heavily implying. This absolutely false. The word "zombie" is what people go to when they think of a mindless being. The word "golem" is what a nazi would say as a dogwhistle to let people know he's down with hating (((Jews))). We Jews said we would never forget, and we haven't.
      - internaut 10y ago
        I am aware of the associations with 'golem' and 'lugenpresse'. And I know the alt-right really hate the media. You're probably not aware fnovd, then many of the attendees were themselves Jewish, including those of 'Heiling' fame. http://www.thewrap.com/tila-tequila-jewish-friends-nazi-sieg-heil-video/ http://www.thewrap.com/tila-tequila-jewish-friends-nazi-sieg... These people are trolling. This is classic trolling. They know this causes people to react and how the media works. For instance The Atlantic in their video on the NPI conference showed apparently 'dozens' of people doing the 'Heil' salute, but if you examine the footage closely you'll notice Richard Spencer is in fact holding up a water glass in one hand and the camera is being positioned multiple times in such a way to make the same three people look like six or nine people. There are classic camera tricks in that video actually to form your opinion (e.g. selective blurring), I'm sure you'll see them too if you go and look. This is also trolling with a purpose in order to attract the right enemies. As I said, this is not the high moral ground. Nonetheless they are not Nazis. You'll need more than some Jewish boys and an Asian pornstar for that to have merit.
internaut 10y ago
I'll stick my neck out and tell you I'm a quasi-neoreactionary, which more or less is to the alt-right what a Marxist is to communism. FWIW I'm not a white supremacist (or nationalist) and many NRX and alt-righters are Jews (including the inventor of neoreaction). Actually read some of the material and see if 'it checks out' that we're all nazis. Scott Alexander has a essay called 'Reactionary Philosophy in a Planet sized nutshell' which is a good synopsis. http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-... Scott is definitely not a reactionary of any kind, so this is a neutral take. Otherwise we can just call each other names and strawman each other all day. Please don't come out with "I don't need no... or somebody on the internet said...". That is just lazy. I don't imagine all socialists subscribe to SJWism, since a lot of them are vehemently against it. Same goes here.

by legodt 10y ago

throwanem 10y ago

Arrant falsehood does tend to gravel people, I suppose. I'm not sure what anyone expects to gain by doubling down on the goodthink echo chamber that's just lost them an election. Emotional comfort, perhaps? I'm not without sympathy for the need - but that's a private matter. Governance in the US is public, and refusing to engage in the process merely cedes the field. Demonizing one's political opponents not only cedes the field but energizes them with just resentment, and I should think the events of this past month should suffice anyone as a lesson in why that might not be the best of all available tactics - but perhaps I extend more credit than due.

leephillips 10y ago
What falsehoods are you referring to? I'm not that familiar with what's going on on Reddit; but alt-right is in fact just a stupid name for neo-Nazi (as recently codified in the AP style guide).
sanswork 10y ago
The idea that the other side has a valid opinion just because they won is stupid. A lot of believes don't deserve any respect at all. The constant posts of "You lost because you didn't listen" are silly. The left lost because Donald lied about important things to a lot of people who are desperate for his lies to be true. The only way he holds support is by continuing to lie and blame it on others once he takes power.
fnovd 10y ago
"One wonders if these people are people at all, or instead soulless golem"[1] The rise of neonazism in the US is real. To claim otherwise, to imply that it is an "arrant falsehood," is to be purposefully ignorant. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-LnO2DOGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-LnO2DOGE
- internaut 10y ago
  Spencer was being deliberately provocative. He knows the media will only play a handful of sound bites to spin their tales, so he gave it to them on a platter to achieve maximum coverage. And it worked. He is now the Great Satan, which apparently means lots of long interviews with major television and radio stations. For clarity, that quote is referring to journalists and the media. Not Jews, as some have been heavily implying. I'd like to remind people here that this is exactly Trump's playbook. You infuriate people, they are eager to take you out of context or extrapolate wildly, then curious passersby figure your accusers are not credible. It's not a high moral ground tactic, but it sure works.
  - fnovd 10y ago
    >For clarity, that quote is referring to journalists and the media. Not Jews, as some have been heavily implying. This absolutely false. The word "zombie" is what people go to when they think of a mindless being. The word "golem" is what a nazi would say as a dogwhistle to let people know he's down with hating (((Jews))). We Jews said we would never forget, and we haven't.
    - internaut 10y ago
      I am aware of the associations with 'golem' and 'lugenpresse'. And I know the alt-right really hate the media. You're probably not aware fnovd, then many of the attendees were themselves Jewish, including those of 'Heiling' fame. http://www.thewrap.com/tila-tequila-jewish-friends-nazi-sieg-heil-video/ http://www.thewrap.com/tila-tequila-jewish-friends-nazi-sieg... These people are trolling. This is classic trolling. They know this causes people to react and how the media works. For instance The Atlantic in their video on the NPI conference showed apparently 'dozens' of people doing the 'Heil' salute, but if you examine the footage closely you'll notice Richard Spencer is in fact holding up a water glass in one hand and the camera is being positioned multiple times in such a way to make the same three people look like six or nine people. There are classic camera tricks in that video actually to form your opinion (e.g. selective blurring), I'm sure you'll see them too if you go and look. This is also trolling with a purpose in order to attract the right enemies. As I said, this is not the high moral ground. Nonetheless they are not Nazis. You'll need more than some Jewish boys and an Asian pornstar for that to have merit.

internaut 10y ago

I'll stick my neck out and tell you I'm a quasi-neoreactionary, which more or less is to the alt-right what a Marxist is to communism. FWIW I'm not a white supremacist (or nationalist) and many NRX and alt-righters are Jews (including the inventor of neoreaction). Actually read some of the material and see if 'it checks out' that we're all nazis. Scott Alexander has a essay called 'Reactionary Philosophy in a Planet sized nutshell' which is a good synopsis. http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-... Scott is definitely not a reactionary of any kind, so this is a neutral take. Otherwise we can just call each other names and strawman each other all day. Please don't come out with "I don't need no... or somebody on the internet said...". That is just lazy. I don't imagine all socialists subscribe to SJWism, since a lot of them are vehemently against it. Same goes here.