5 ms·

"Its members spread coded hate speech" yeah had to stop nice bias

by ky738 10y ago

wnevets 10y ago
you're right, its not even coded hate speech.
- leurfete 10y ago
  I took a look at their sub. I couldn't find any hate speech (though I ignored heavily downvoted comments). I'm also suspicious of "coded hate speech" since that concept grants license to attach racist connotations to just about any sentence. Is there a post on r/The_Donald that stands out to you as being hate speech?
  - batiudrami 10y ago
    It's typically the commenters. /r/The_Donald has rules which are supposed to stop hate speech (and typically they delete posts which are). However, with remarkable consistency, if you find someone spouting bigotry and hatred in another subreddit, they are almost always regular /r/The_Donald posters.
    - rrggrr 10y ago
      If this is argument for banning the subreddit, as opposed to the user, its no less scary than the offensive speech.
      - batiudrami 10y ago
        why? they did it for /r/fatpeoplehate for the same reason and it significantly improved reddit.
  - jballanc 10y ago
    I was curious. So I looked. This was the top non-stickied post I saw: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5fltt9/amy_schumer_and_lena_dunham_are_finally_leaving/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5fltt9/amy_schu... To save others the trouble, the title of the post is "Amy Schumer And Lena Dunham Are Finally Leaving The Country" and the image is of two orca whales being prepared for transport. The very non-coded message is that these two women are "as fat as whales" and furthermore that they deserve to be derided based on physical appearance because of their expressed political opinions. I'm no lawyer, but I think that's treading awfully close to "hate speech".
    - rrggrr 10y ago
      Its a fine line between protecting the oppressed and being oppressive. When you misapply "hate speech" by using it to describe satire, or humor in bad taste, you run the risk of losing the "hate speech" tool to devaluation, blow-back and more satire. Some things deserve a response and others really are best ignored.
      - jballanc 10y ago
        Agree completely. Where I have a problem with r/The_Donald is more than any one post, there are patterns that have emerged over time. Hence others calling out "coded hate speech", a concept which I am even more uncomfortable with than "borderline" hate speech. That said, the very colloquialism they use to refer to the opposition ("cuck") is merely a shortened form of a term ("cuckold") with a very long history of being a base insult with rather heavy connotations of misogyny. (i.e. Being "cuckolded", a man whose female partner has exhibited infidelity, is taken as a sign of weakness whereas being a woman whose male partner sleeps around is just de rigueur to the point there's not even a special term for it.)
        disposable235 10y ago
        You are reaching for some quite indirect logic here. As someone regularly frequenting 4chan I can assure you that the sole target of the cuck insult is the male's pride. Of course it being a sexul insult it is practically unavoidable that values and the female partner are indirectly involved in how the insult works. Well, technically homosexual couples can also cuck each other, and I have seen the term occasionally used in discussion about homosexual manga. So it really is not about the female. Hell, even the fairly juvenile "ur mom" is more negative towards females than "cuck". When women are attacked you will notice. Slut and whale are still the go-to insults. So please do not shoehorn gender issues into everything. Sure, some assumptions are encoded into it. But it's a goddamn insult, not some friendly disagreement in a debate club. Please adjust your context sensitivity.
    - faggotfromspace 10y ago
      It's a joke; which if not self-evident should be by the comments. jballanc, your comments are offensive to me... now, I'm no lawyer, but I think your comment is awfully close to hate speech.
  - wnevets 10y ago
    https://i.redd.it/qhilg1rxa5gx.jpg https://i.redd.it/qhilg1rxa5gx.jpg looks like hate speech to me.
- legodt 10y ago
  This is a good way to acrue massive, immediate backlash on HN. Calling alt-righters out for being neonazis and reminding people that hate speech isn't free speech is apparently over the line for a subset of users here.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    Arrant falsehood does tend to gravel people, I suppose. I'm not sure what anyone expects to gain by doubling down on the goodthink echo chamber that's just lost them an election. Emotional comfort, perhaps? I'm not without sympathy for the need - but that's a private matter. Governance in the US is public, and refusing to engage in the process merely cedes the field. Demonizing one's political opponents not only cedes the field but energizes them with just resentment, and I should think the events of this past month should suffice anyone as a lesson in why that might not be the best of all available tactics - but perhaps I extend more credit than due.
    - leephillips 10y ago
      What falsehoods are you referring to? I'm not that familiar with what's going on on Reddit; but alt-right is in fact just a stupid name for neo-Nazi (as recently codified in the AP style guide).
    - sanswork 10y ago
      The idea that the other side has a valid opinion just because they won is stupid. A lot of believes don't deserve any respect at all. The constant posts of "You lost because you didn't listen" are silly. The left lost because Donald lied about important things to a lot of people who are desperate for his lies to be true. The only way he holds support is by continuing to lie and blame it on others once he takes power.
    - fnovd 10y ago
      "One wonders if these people are people at all, or instead soulless golem"[1] The rise of neonazism in the US is real. To claim otherwise, to imply that it is an "arrant falsehood," is to be purposefully ignorant. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-LnO2DOGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-LnO2DOGE
skylan_q 10y ago
Don't you know? Borders are for Nazis.

"Its members spread coded hate speech" yeah had to stop nice bias

by ky738 10y ago

"Its members spread coded hate speech" yeah had to stop nice bias

wnevets 10y ago

you're right, its not even coded hate speech.

leurfete 10y ago
I took a look at their sub. I couldn't find any hate speech (though I ignored heavily downvoted comments). I'm also suspicious of "coded hate speech" since that concept grants license to attach racist connotations to just about any sentence. Is there a post on r/The_Donald that stands out to you as being hate speech?
- batiudrami 10y ago
  It's typically the commenters. /r/The_Donald has rules which are supposed to stop hate speech (and typically they delete posts which are). However, with remarkable consistency, if you find someone spouting bigotry and hatred in another subreddit, they are almost always regular /r/The_Donald posters.
  - rrggrr 10y ago
    If this is argument for banning the subreddit, as opposed to the user, its no less scary than the offensive speech.
    - batiudrami 10y ago
      why? they did it for /r/fatpeoplehate for the same reason and it significantly improved reddit.
- jballanc 10y ago
  I was curious. So I looked. This was the top non-stickied post I saw: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5fltt9/amy_schumer_and_lena_dunham_are_finally_leaving/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5fltt9/amy_schu... To save others the trouble, the title of the post is "Amy Schumer And Lena Dunham Are Finally Leaving The Country" and the image is of two orca whales being prepared for transport. The very non-coded message is that these two women are "as fat as whales" and furthermore that they deserve to be derided based on physical appearance because of their expressed political opinions. I'm no lawyer, but I think that's treading awfully close to "hate speech".
  - rrggrr 10y ago
    Its a fine line between protecting the oppressed and being oppressive. When you misapply "hate speech" by using it to describe satire, or humor in bad taste, you run the risk of losing the "hate speech" tool to devaluation, blow-back and more satire. Some things deserve a response and others really are best ignored.
    - jballanc 10y ago
      Agree completely. Where I have a problem with r/The_Donald is more than any one post, there are patterns that have emerged over time. Hence others calling out "coded hate speech", a concept which I am even more uncomfortable with than "borderline" hate speech. That said, the very colloquialism they use to refer to the opposition ("cuck") is merely a shortened form of a term ("cuckold") with a very long history of being a base insult with rather heavy connotations of misogyny. (i.e. Being "cuckolded", a man whose female partner has exhibited infidelity, is taken as a sign of weakness whereas being a woman whose male partner sleeps around is just de rigueur to the point there's not even a special term for it.)
      - disposable235 10y ago
        You are reaching for some quite indirect logic here. As someone regularly frequenting 4chan I can assure you that the sole target of the cuck insult is the male's pride. Of course it being a sexul insult it is practically unavoidable that values and the female partner are indirectly involved in how the insult works. Well, technically homosexual couples can also cuck each other, and I have seen the term occasionally used in discussion about homosexual manga. So it really is not about the female. Hell, even the fairly juvenile "ur mom" is more negative towards females than "cuck". When women are attacked you will notice. Slut and whale are still the go-to insults. So please do not shoehorn gender issues into everything. Sure, some assumptions are encoded into it. But it's a goddamn insult, not some friendly disagreement in a debate club. Please adjust your context sensitivity.
  - faggotfromspace 10y ago
    It's a joke; which if not self-evident should be by the comments. jballanc, your comments are offensive to me... now, I'm no lawyer, but I think your comment is awfully close to hate speech.
- wnevets 10y ago
  https://i.redd.it/qhilg1rxa5gx.jpg https://i.redd.it/qhilg1rxa5gx.jpg looks like hate speech to me.
legodt 10y ago
This is a good way to acrue massive, immediate backlash on HN. Calling alt-righters out for being neonazis and reminding people that hate speech isn't free speech is apparently over the line for a subset of users here.
- throwanem 10y ago
  Arrant falsehood does tend to gravel people, I suppose. I'm not sure what anyone expects to gain by doubling down on the goodthink echo chamber that's just lost them an election. Emotional comfort, perhaps? I'm not without sympathy for the need - but that's a private matter. Governance in the US is public, and refusing to engage in the process merely cedes the field. Demonizing one's political opponents not only cedes the field but energizes them with just resentment, and I should think the events of this past month should suffice anyone as a lesson in why that might not be the best of all available tactics - but perhaps I extend more credit than due.
  - leephillips 10y ago
    What falsehoods are you referring to? I'm not that familiar with what's going on on Reddit; but alt-right is in fact just a stupid name for neo-Nazi (as recently codified in the AP style guide).
  - sanswork 10y ago
    The idea that the other side has a valid opinion just because they won is stupid. A lot of believes don't deserve any respect at all. The constant posts of "You lost because you didn't listen" are silly. The left lost because Donald lied about important things to a lot of people who are desperate for his lies to be true. The only way he holds support is by continuing to lie and blame it on others once he takes power.
  - fnovd 10y ago
    "One wonders if these people are people at all, or instead soulless golem"[1] The rise of neonazism in the US is real. To claim otherwise, to imply that it is an "arrant falsehood," is to be purposefully ignorant. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-LnO2DOGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-LnO2DOGE

skylan_q 10y ago

Don't you know? Borders are for Nazis.