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By all accounts, Amazon is a hard place to work. It sounds like it's demanding, difficult and puts employees under a constant microscope that cannot help but in

By all accounts, Amazon is a hard place to work. It sounds like it's demanding, difficult and puts employees under a constant microscope that cannot help but increase stress. Given the track record, it probably surprises none of us to read these stories. And I'm really wondering if I should type this, but I also wonder about isolated stories like these. Given the number of employees, some are bound to be very sick people, regardless of working conditions. Some are also bound to be entitled, unrealistic or otherwise simply willing to take advantage of a story like this to criticize an employer they felt wronged them. I have worked with more than one person who was willing to resort to self-harm as a manipulative technique, which is a horrible and unfair thing to deal with. I just wish I could read articles like this and say unequivocally that I know Amazon is the problem. I have no facts in this case, so I can only hope that the person who attempted suicide yesterday gets the help he needs, from within Amazon or outside of it. EDIT: I have suffered from mental illness myself and as a vet, I know work related stress quite intimately (though I have never had PTSD myself, people who I worked with still deal with it and it is very real). So I don't want to dismiss that this occurs and is real. But we also have large, aggregate numbers, which we never get from private sector companies. All we get are anecdotes, each of which could easily be explained away. And perhaps that's part of the problem. Should private companies have to provide concrete data on workplace health issues like this? We regulate workplace safety, why not mental health?

amzn-sde 10y ago
> By all accounts, Amazon is a hard place to work. It sounds like it's demanding, difficult and puts employees under a constant microscope that cannot help but increase stress. Given the track record, it probably surprises none of us to read these stories. It most certainly is and not everyone is cut out for the amount of pressure and stress put on engineers. This is the truth of the matter. Some crumble by walking away to other jobs and other venues, others crumble by sadly things far worse like the events that unfolded yesterday. Personally I look around and realize I work with people capable of working at the other big tech companies, I work with people from all the big brand name schools. I work with a remarkable group of individuals (business and engineers). There is a constant pressure to succeed and out perform your peers. I tell me wife at times that sometimes I want to go back to working at a sub shop for minimum wage like I did in college because all I do now is pad Amazon's bottom line. I help amazon grow their revenue and make stock holders rich. Sure they pay well, sure they give out stock too and so the grass isn't always greener. I remind myself though that I work with the greatest of great in our industry and we all want to excel so it is a constant competition. I also accepted that if I am not cut out for it I will leave. Until that day I need to have the mental stability and fortitude to manage and cope with the stress and pressure. What is most sad though is the few negative cries outweigh the multitude of positive. I work with an amazing team, we have normal hours, our on-call is normal and some weeks I never get paged and we even take time off around the holidays because our team and team's leadership has our shit together.
thegeomaster 10y ago
What I'm curious about is this kind of stories from the other big companies. I have no data, but if there are is a similar number of such stories per employee for other big employers in the field, then this is not about Amazon. If not, then what's different about Amazon (or the people working there)?
gdulli 10y ago
Demanding isn't a bad thing. I expect that the type of people in these jobs are usually the type who seek out challenges. Sometimes my job is slow and I'm happier in the times when it's demanding. What we've heard about Amazon, for a long time, is something that's closer to dysfunction and abuse. Completely different things and we shouldn't equivocate about them. The makeup of feedback about Amazon I've read about and heard from friends is negative to a qualitatively different extent than the reputation of other companies.
wutbrodo 10y ago
> Given the track record, it probably surprises none of us to read these stories. It surprises me, a lot. I was at Google for years, and even if you model a company's decision-making simply as 100% profit-maximizing, IME HR/managers/everyone was pretty motivated to keep employees happy so that they don't leave. This pops up in all kinds of things: flexibility of the work environment, keeping you engaged in interesting work, paying attention to your career and skills growth, etc. If anything I'd be inclined away from complimenting the way Google treats their employees: I left because I wasn't satisfied with the way career growth worked in the Research org of such a large company. But at not point did it seem like anyone thought that putting employees under heavy pressure was a path to success, let alone the expected path to success, as you imply.
- stinkytaco 10y ago
  By track record I mean that this is hardly the first time Amazon's workplace culture has come under scrutiny. This story and yesterday's are one in a long line. Not that they are successful, ergo they must abuse employees.
  - wutbrodo 10y ago
    Ha...that makes sense. Ignore everything I said. Though I should say that I definitely have heard that kind of apologia for a terrible environment before.

amzn-sde 10y ago

> By all accounts, Amazon is a hard place to work. It sounds like it's demanding, difficult and puts employees under a constant microscope that cannot help but increase stress. Given the track record, it probably surprises none of us to read these stories. It most certainly is and not everyone is cut out for the amount of pressure and stress put on engineers. This is the truth of the matter. Some crumble by walking away to other jobs and other venues, others crumble by sadly things far worse like the events that unfolded yesterday. Personally I look around and realize I work with people capable of working at the other big tech companies, I work with people from all the big brand name schools. I work with a remarkable group of individuals (business and engineers). There is a constant pressure to succeed and out perform your peers. I tell me wife at times that sometimes I want to go back to working at a sub shop for minimum wage like I did in college because all I do now is pad Amazon's bottom line. I help amazon grow their revenue and make stock holders rich. Sure they pay well, sure they give out stock too and so the grass isn't always greener. I remind myself though that I work with the greatest of great in our industry and we all want to excel so it is a constant competition. I also accepted that if I am not cut out for it I will leave. Until that day I need to have the mental stability and fortitude to manage and cope with the stress and pressure. What is most sad though is the few negative cries outweigh the multitude of positive. I work with an amazing team, we have normal hours, our on-call is normal and some weeks I never get paged and we even take time off around the holidays because our team and team's leadership has our shit together.

thegeomaster 10y ago

What I'm curious about is this kind of stories from the other big companies. I have no data, but if there are is a similar number of such stories per employee for other big employers in the field, then this is not about Amazon. If not, then what's different about Amazon (or the people working there)?

gdulli 10y ago

Demanding isn't a bad thing. I expect that the type of people in these jobs are usually the type who seek out challenges. Sometimes my job is slow and I'm happier in the times when it's demanding. What we've heard about Amazon, for a long time, is something that's closer to dysfunction and abuse. Completely different things and we shouldn't equivocate about them. The makeup of feedback about Amazon I've read about and heard from friends is negative to a qualitatively different extent than the reputation of other companies.

wutbrodo 10y ago

> Given the track record, it probably surprises none of us to read these stories. It surprises me, a lot. I was at Google for years, and even if you model a company's decision-making simply as 100% profit-maximizing, IME HR/managers/everyone was pretty motivated to keep employees happy so that they don't leave. This pops up in all kinds of things: flexibility of the work environment, keeping you engaged in interesting work, paying attention to your career and skills growth, etc. If anything I'd be inclined away from complimenting the way Google treats their employees: I left because I wasn't satisfied with the way career growth worked in the Research org of such a large company. But at not point did it seem like anyone thought that putting employees under heavy pressure was a path to success, let alone the expected path to success, as you imply.

stinkytaco 10y ago
By track record I mean that this is hardly the first time Amazon's workplace culture has come under scrutiny. This story and yesterday's are one in a long line. Not that they are successful, ergo they must abuse employees.
- wutbrodo 10y ago
  Ha...that makes sense. Ignore everything I said. Though I should say that I definitely have heard that kind of apologia for a terrible environment before.