3 ms·

>XFCE uses GTK, so it is one less thing for you to be concerned. Still doesn't resolve the question. Do I use GTK, Qt, or any of the other Linux GUI toolkits.

by st3v3r 10y ago

>XFCE uses GTK, so it is one less thing for you to be concerned. Still doesn't resolve the question. Do I use GTK, Qt, or any of the other Linux GUI toolkits. Perhaps FLTK? FOX? Do I have to use raw XLIB? What do I use if I want my application to fit in with the rest of the system? >It is entirely possible to have desktop application that use one toolkit while the main Desktop Environment uses another. Which looks and uses like ass. You have things that conflict in keyboard shortcuts, you have things that don't respect the UI/UX of the rest of the system, which the user presumably chose because they liked that setup. >You seem to be stuck in this same mindset from Microsoft developers, where everything is only accepted if blessed by their vendor. This is as anti-freedom as it gets. No, I'm stuck in the mindset that I want things to work, and work well, and be pleasant to use. Right now Linux has significant barriers to this. And to hand wave it away as not a problem, or something derogatory about "microsoft developers" is not only arrogant, but means that it won't get addressed. >If you are okay with living in a golden cage, fine. But at least own up to it. All of your excuses so far have been baseless. They're only baseless to someone who doesn't care about usability. If you want to sacrifice being able to use software without pulling your hair out for "freedom", go ahead. But don't you dare disparage those of us who value usability of our software.

rglullis 10y ago
Look, I don't want to get into a screaming match with you, and I am afraid this is what is starting to become. I see someone is already doing some drive-by downvoting on you, and this is not cool. But you need to realize that you are holding very strong opinions who are based on the state of Linux system from at least 10 years ago. If you try to take a look at any modern Linux system, you will see that there have been many integration efforts and developments around FreeDesktop.org, which basically removed all of these straw-men you are putting. Theme Engines can be toolkit-independent, so they can and often do perfectly "fit with the rest of the system". > If you want to sacrifice being able to use software without pulling your hair out for "freedom", go ahead. My whole point for OP was "use proprietary software if you have to, but hedge it by supporting free alternatives. In the long run it can be a good strategy, because you won't have to sacrifice the utilitarian value of software, but at the same time you will be standing for a good principle", yet and you are the one taking such a violent stance against it. You want to paint me as someone taking some kind of extremist view which has no basis in reality. If you need examples: - A few months ago I wrote a tiny review about Ubuntu Phone (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12201061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12201061). If you read it you will see I am not "pulling my hair out for freedom". - I reinstalled my windows partition on a laptop, simply because I wanted to play with my guitar in the computer, and I was tired of fighting with low latency kernels, jackd and pulseaudio. It was too much knob-switching and lever-pulling just for what was supposed to be a hobby. - I made a Hackintosh for me last year, because I truly wanted to see what I would be missing software-wise. Turns out that it was only XCode and iOS programming. Everything else worked just like it worked on my Xubuntu, or it had an analogue. So, I wouldn't tell anyone that has some specific use-case that they should sacrifice everything just to keep using FOSS. But I will tell them when their use-case could be covered by FOSS and that there is no excuse not to use it. And this happens to be the case of 95% of "coffee shop web developers". There is no extra value in using MacOS compared to Linux for someone that uses basically text editors/terminal line/unix server software/web browser. If you take an honest attempt at using Linux for 2 weeks you will see that, and you will soon realize that all of this talk of "valuing usability of our software over freedom" is just a rationalization of your prejudices.

by st3v3r 10y ago

rglullis 10y ago

Look, I don't want to get into a screaming match with you, and I am afraid this is what is starting to become. I see someone is already doing some drive-by downvoting on you, and this is not cool. But you need to realize that you are holding very strong opinions who are based on the state of Linux system from at least 10 years ago. If you try to take a look at any modern Linux system, you will see that there have been many integration efforts and developments around FreeDesktop.org, which basically removed all of these straw-men you are putting. Theme Engines can be toolkit-independent, so they can and often do perfectly "fit with the rest of the system". > If you want to sacrifice being able to use software without pulling your hair out for "freedom", go ahead. My whole point for OP was "use proprietary software if you have to, but hedge it by supporting free alternatives. In the long run it can be a good strategy, because you won't have to sacrifice the utilitarian value of software, but at the same time you will be standing for a good principle", yet and you are the one taking such a violent stance against it. You want to paint me as someone taking some kind of extremist view which has no basis in reality. If you need examples: - A few months ago I wrote a tiny review about Ubuntu Phone (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12201061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12201061). If you read it you will see I am not "pulling my hair out for freedom". - I reinstalled my windows partition on a laptop, simply because I wanted to play with my guitar in the computer, and I was tired of fighting with low latency kernels, jackd and pulseaudio. It was too much knob-switching and lever-pulling just for what was supposed to be a hobby. - I made a Hackintosh for me last year, because I truly wanted to see what I would be missing software-wise. Turns out that it was only XCode and iOS programming. Everything else worked just like it worked on my Xubuntu, or it had an analogue. So, I wouldn't tell anyone that has some specific use-case that they should sacrifice everything just to keep using FOSS. But I will tell them when their use-case could be covered by FOSS and that there is no excuse not to use it. And this happens to be the case of 95% of "coffee shop web developers". There is no extra value in using MacOS compared to Linux for someone that uses basically text editors/terminal line/unix server software/web browser. If you take an honest attempt at using Linux for 2 weeks you will see that, and you will soon realize that all of this talk of "valuing usability of our software over freedom" is just a rationalization of your prejudices.