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"As far as front-end web development is concerned, all you really need to know is JavaScript, HTML, CSS, and the DOM" This is not true in practice. In fact, r

"As far as front-end web development is concerned, all you really need to know is JavaScript, HTML, CSS, and the DOM" This is not true in practice. In fact, really far from reality. As evidence I offer that most of the best shops with the most talented people are using frameworks - in fact - they are often the source of the best frameworks. Nobody is writing 'raw' web apps these days, because there's a huge amount of your roll-your-own code that you'd need to write to even do basic things. The web before jQuery to handle plaf/frag was rubbish. Newer frameworks fortunately obfuscate some of the need for jQuery, but still - you need a framework, pragmatically speaking. Not only are frameworks in most paradigms essential - they change very rapidly. This is the problem. Finally - HTML, CSS, DOM and JS - just themselves are iterating very rapidly.

webmaven 10y ago
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. The only nit I have to pick is that new frameworks don't have to deal with as much platform fragmentation as jQuery had to paper over in it's heyday, in part because all major browsers are now somewhat more compatible and standards compliant, in part because any missing or incompatible functionality can usually be dealt with by using a polyfill, and in part because evergreen browsers have sharply reduced user updrag.
- edblarney 10y ago
  I think there might be a 'purist' strain here on HN. Most complex/serious web-apps use frameworks as a given. There's just too much to have to do without them, though it depends on what you're trying to do, surely. HN itself probably doesn't use a framework.
  - webmaven 10y ago
    HN is written in Arc, a Lisp/Scheme variant. HN source (news.arc) is actually distributed with the language: https://github.com/wting/hackernews/blob/master/news.arc https://github.com/wting/hackernews/blob/master/news.arc Lisps tend to blur the distinction between application code, library code, and framework code somewhat, at least with well-designed applications.

webmaven 10y ago

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. The only nit I have to pick is that new frameworks don't have to deal with as much platform fragmentation as jQuery had to paper over in it's heyday, in part because all major browsers are now somewhat more compatible and standards compliant, in part because any missing or incompatible functionality can usually be dealt with by using a polyfill, and in part because evergreen browsers have sharply reduced user updrag.

edblarney 10y ago
I think there might be a 'purist' strain here on HN. Most complex/serious web-apps use frameworks as a given. There's just too much to have to do without them, though it depends on what you're trying to do, surely. HN itself probably doesn't use a framework.
- webmaven 10y ago
  HN is written in Arc, a Lisp/Scheme variant. HN source (news.arc) is actually distributed with the language: https://github.com/wting/hackernews/blob/master/news.arc https://github.com/wting/hackernews/blob/master/news.arc Lisps tend to blur the distinction between application code, library code, and framework code somewhat, at least with well-designed applications.