5 ms·

Miami Beach has always flooded (during full moons water can rise right up through the ground). I have lived in FL all my life (41 years), my family spans back

by kls 10y ago

Miami Beach has always flooded (during full moons water can rise right up through the ground). I have lived in FL all my life (41 years), my family spans back 12 generations from me. King tides are nothing new, nor is Miami flooding during them. I live in the Keys which is lower lying than Miami beach but we have the safety of the barrier reef that mellows the tidal changes, this is just a sensational piece due to a rare but historically recurring event. Miami is not flooding for good, we are in a weather cycle coming off El Nino into a lunar cycle, it happens from time to time. It's not exactly intellectually honest to attribute a known phenomenon (King tides, which is the reason Miami is currently flooded) to climate change. It was not climate change in the 1800's when the old timers dealt with them. This is not meant to be a dissertation on climate change, rather to highlight pieces like this do more damage than good to the arguments that climate change science presents when items like this are highlighted as the predicted outcomes.

xapata 10y ago
The article mentions king tides and cites a report [0] that the floods are getting worse. [0] http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/news-events/press-releases/2016/new-study-shows-increased-flooding-accelerated-sea-level-rise-in-miami-over http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/news-events/press-releases/2016/n...
- kls 10y ago
  The floods are worse this year because we have a combination of El Nino weakening the gulf stream which in a normal year has some effect on pushing tides longitudinal as well as flattening them and King tides which are caused by a lunar event, not anything terrestrial. It is an unusually event for sure but has historically happened before. This is a combination of two natural phenomena, nothing more nothing less. It should not be attributed to climate change which has it's own real concerns. Climate change is not contributing to the current situation of Miami being flooded. Attributing it to it, does more to discredit climate change and give voice to fear mongering than it does to further it's cause.
  - dv_dt 10y ago
    If the occurrence of the conditions required for flooding are happening at increased probability driven by climate change, then one could reasonably attribute increased flooding to climate change. If only way to be sure is to wait for the data to show up 50-100 year baseline data for flooding, then by the time you act - all the costly infrastructure commitments have been made... it's another form of socializing the costs while privatizing the profits.
    - pixl97 10y ago
      Climate change isn't the only thing that increases the probability. Over the long term they may eventually be the largest cause, but currently I would cite many, many other issues. Sea walls, land use changes, water pumping, loss of wetlands all affect the severity of tides. All these things could be changed to avoid issues while completely ignoring climate change for now.... Yet they do nothing. Ocean bathymetry is extremely complex, messing with one thing on a shoreline effects everything around it. Just yelling "It's all climate change" is both stupid and dangerous. Trying to stop the shoreline from moving is stupid, expensive, and in the long term, dangerous.
      - dv_dt 10y ago
        Sure thing, all the other states you mention speak to the capacity of the shoreline to absorb some amount of water increase (from any source). Independently, if the frequency and intensity of flooding events is predicted to increase in the future, one would think that long term zoning regulations to preserve or increase the capacity of the shore to absorb flooding would be cheaper than, fix-it-quick with big infrastructure projects after catastrophic damage has already occured. That's why it's cheaper to address it now, rather than wait until the building policy completely breaks down.
        mistermann 10y ago
        ...assuming something WILL have to be done. If we can continue to muddle through for 100-200 years, it isn't cheaper to fix it now.

by kls 10y ago

xapata 10y ago

The article mentions king tides and cites a report [0] that the floods are getting worse. [0] http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/news-events/press-releases/2016/new-study-shows-increased-flooding-accelerated-sea-level-rise-in-miami-over http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/news-events/press-releases/2016/n...

kls 10y ago
The floods are worse this year because we have a combination of El Nino weakening the gulf stream which in a normal year has some effect on pushing tides longitudinal as well as flattening them and King tides which are caused by a lunar event, not anything terrestrial. It is an unusually event for sure but has historically happened before. This is a combination of two natural phenomena, nothing more nothing less. It should not be attributed to climate change which has it's own real concerns. Climate change is not contributing to the current situation of Miami being flooded. Attributing it to it, does more to discredit climate change and give voice to fear mongering than it does to further it's cause.
- dv_dt 10y ago
  If the occurrence of the conditions required for flooding are happening at increased probability driven by climate change, then one could reasonably attribute increased flooding to climate change. If only way to be sure is to wait for the data to show up 50-100 year baseline data for flooding, then by the time you act - all the costly infrastructure commitments have been made... it's another form of socializing the costs while privatizing the profits.
  - pixl97 10y ago
    Climate change isn't the only thing that increases the probability. Over the long term they may eventually be the largest cause, but currently I would cite many, many other issues. Sea walls, land use changes, water pumping, loss of wetlands all affect the severity of tides. All these things could be changed to avoid issues while completely ignoring climate change for now.... Yet they do nothing. Ocean bathymetry is extremely complex, messing with one thing on a shoreline effects everything around it. Just yelling "It's all climate change" is both stupid and dangerous. Trying to stop the shoreline from moving is stupid, expensive, and in the long term, dangerous.
    - dv_dt 10y ago
      Sure thing, all the other states you mention speak to the capacity of the shoreline to absorb some amount of water increase (from any source). Independently, if the frequency and intensity of flooding events is predicted to increase in the future, one would think that long term zoning regulations to preserve or increase the capacity of the shore to absorb flooding would be cheaper than, fix-it-quick with big infrastructure projects after catastrophic damage has already occured. That's why it's cheaper to address it now, rather than wait until the building policy completely breaks down.
      - mistermann 10y ago
        ...assuming something WILL have to be done. If we can continue to muddle through for 100-200 years, it isn't cheaper to fix it now.