3 ms·

For the record, if the speaker is truly blown (ruined) this is a problem with the hardware - not the software. If you can't design a speaker and amplifier combi

by rplst8 10y ago

For the record, if the speaker is truly blown (ruined) this is a problem with the hardware - not the software. If you can't design a speaker and amplifier combination with a limiter that won't let itself self-destruct, you are an audio design failure.

wrigby 10y ago
I mostly agree on this, but I can also see how they got to a design that has this flaw. You can do better (more transparent, more adaptive, etc.) limiting in DSP than with a simple hardware circuit. Doing the limiting in the driver also saves you hardware components and PCB layout space. It's a slippery slope of optimization that only works when you control the OS (or drivers at least) and the hardware together, but one slip-up can be catastrophic.
- mikejmoffitt 10y ago
  A small micro or DSP processor can sit in the data path and solve this problem "in software, in hardware". It's unusual for software to be able to damage hardware for a consumer product.
  - avian 10y ago
    Old Samsung ARM Chromebooks used to have a similar problem where some ALSA settings would overload and destroy the built-in speakers. Mine actually started smoking and melting after I installed Debian. https://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2012/12/10/how-to-fry-speakers-in-your-chromebook/ https://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2012/12/10/how-to-fry-spea... I don't want to compare a $300 browser-in-a-box with a $2000 laptop, but issues like this aren't unheard of.
- rplst8 10y ago
  I can see your point, but this is one of the downsides to vertical integration.
coldtea 10y ago
Most speakers, even expensive $10,000 hi-fi ones or pro ones will get damaged in a similar way if the signal has sudden bursts, clipping etc.
- rplst8 10y ago
  What you say is true but hardly comparable. Those are open systems where users can mix and match speakers with different amplifiers. In closed systems there is definitely a expectation that they are a tad more idiot proof.

by rplst8 10y ago

wrigby 10y ago

I mostly agree on this, but I can also see how they got to a design that has this flaw. You can do better (more transparent, more adaptive, etc.) limiting in DSP than with a simple hardware circuit. Doing the limiting in the driver also saves you hardware components and PCB layout space. It's a slippery slope of optimization that only works when you control the OS (or drivers at least) and the hardware together, but one slip-up can be catastrophic.

mikejmoffitt 10y ago
A small micro or DSP processor can sit in the data path and solve this problem "in software, in hardware". It's unusual for software to be able to damage hardware for a consumer product.
- avian 10y ago
  Old Samsung ARM Chromebooks used to have a similar problem where some ALSA settings would overload and destroy the built-in speakers. Mine actually started smoking and melting after I installed Debian. https://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2012/12/10/how-to-fry-speakers-in-your-chromebook/ https://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2012/12/10/how-to-fry-spea... I don't want to compare a $300 browser-in-a-box with a $2000 laptop, but issues like this aren't unheard of.
rplst8 10y ago
I can see your point, but this is one of the downsides to vertical integration.

coldtea 10y ago

Most speakers, even expensive $10,000 hi-fi ones or pro ones will get damaged in a similar way if the signal has sudden bursts, clipping etc.

rplst8 10y ago
What you say is true but hardly comparable. Those are open systems where users can mix and match speakers with different amplifiers. In closed systems there is definitely a expectation that they are a tad more idiot proof.