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You seriously, truly believe a person belongs in prison for selling something he found? I don't understand the blood lust some people around here have for this

You seriously, truly believe a person belongs in prison for selling something he found? I don't understand the blood lust some people around here have for this guy or gizmodo. Say what you will about ethics, this is certainly no reason to put a person in prison. What a bizarre perspective you have.

davidmurphy 17y ago
How would you feel if I found keys to a your home and sold them to a local gossip blog to come take pictures? Maybe not the best example, but it conveys the idea...
- jrockway 17y ago
  How would I feel if you found my phone and some people took pictures of it after all the data was erased? I'll tell you: I would feel nothing, because I would never ever find out.
- look_lookatme 17y ago
  Personally, I don't think you should go to prison. If, say, this guy had conspired to break into Apple and steal this thing or stalked the engineer and thieved it outright, then there is a difference. I don't know and don't care if there isn't one by law, it's just not the same. I think this guy made a bone head decision. I think Gawker did too. I also think mistakes happen and that punishment should fit the crime. What do we know about this crime and the damage it did? It's hard to gauge, but I don't think it's so criminal that people belong in prison for it. This wasn't the nuclear launch codes.
noonespecial 17y ago
My thoughts exactly. Give the $5000 back to Apple, do a little community service, learn a valuable life lesson on not being a dick in local bars. Everybody wins.
- maxharris 17y ago
  No. His theft resulted in Apple's loss of millions of dollars in trade secrets and marketing. $5000 is not even a drop in this bucket - it's really beside the point completely (it is merely strong evidence of his guilt). He belongs in prison if he is found guilty on the broader principle of justice. I am referring to the principle that says that a man that robs you as a private citizen should get at least as severe a penalty as someone that robs a large group of people (in this case, Apple's employees and shareholders). This is required if we are to maintain our rule of law and the benefits that it entails.
  - noonespecial 17y ago
    If he had robbed me personally in a non-violent manner, he quite likely would receive a punishment much like I described. Maybe even less. His theft resulted in Apple's loss of millions of dollars in trade secrets and marketing. That's one claim that would require a mountain of proof. Until then, prototype or not, its a $400 phone.
    - maxharris 17y ago
      > mountain of proof When Apple almost went bankrupt in 1997, they were one really leaky ship. Everyone knew what they were working on, so when Macworld time came around, there were no real surprises. Steve Jobs realized that they were losing millions in publicity by screwing this up, and he stopped the leaks and saved Apple. Obviously he did a lot of other things that had a lot to do with their success, but stopping the leaks did have a very measurable impact on them. Edit: I forgot to mention this earlier, but the Osborne effect is probably the larger factor to consider here. Lots of people will be waiting to get new iPhones now (myself included).
    - tptacek 17y ago
      $400? What are you talking about? Apple's margins on the iPhone are reportedly between 20-50%; by your logic, since Apple itself lost the phone, this guy should only be on the hook for ~$300 or so! Of course, using reality-based logic, the story is a little different. The reality is that if this incident caused Apple to reschedule the iPhone unveiling by one day, or pushed the release date of the phone back by a week, or took an engineering team offline for a couple days, or forced Apple to spend 80 billable hours with outside counsel, or... look, there's probably not a single action Apple could have taken in response to this that doesn't immediately incur 5-6 figure damages. Could this guy have possibly realized that? Not Apple's problem. Not the world's greatest caper, this one.
allwein 17y ago
"I walk into a coffee shop and 'find' an unattended laptop sitting on one of the tables, so I decide to close it up and take it home with me." Nobody I've talked to seems to think that this scenario is okay or would consider the laptop "lost".
tptacek 17y ago
He's not going to prison. He could have taken the phone out of the engineer's pocket intentionally and still not go to prison.
- look_lookatme 17y ago
  I don't really think he is, I'm just bothered by some of the sentiments floated around here about the severity of the crime.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    If, walking down the street, I found the keys to a Porsche 911, picked them up, and sold them to someone I knew would later steal the car, all I'd be is a car thief. It takes creative stupidity to do the amount of damage these guys did with their crime.
  - mos1 17y ago
    I'm bothered by sentiments such as yours, indicating that selling other people's property for a profit isn't unethical, immoral or criminal.

davidmurphy 17y ago

How would you feel if I found keys to a your home and sold them to a local gossip blog to come take pictures? Maybe not the best example, but it conveys the idea...

jrockway 17y ago
How would I feel if you found my phone and some people took pictures of it after all the data was erased? I'll tell you: I would feel nothing, because I would never ever find out.
look_lookatme 17y ago
Personally, I don't think you should go to prison. If, say, this guy had conspired to break into Apple and steal this thing or stalked the engineer and thieved it outright, then there is a difference. I don't know and don't care if there isn't one by law, it's just not the same. I think this guy made a bone head decision. I think Gawker did too. I also think mistakes happen and that punishment should fit the crime. What do we know about this crime and the damage it did? It's hard to gauge, but I don't think it's so criminal that people belong in prison for it. This wasn't the nuclear launch codes.

noonespecial 17y ago

My thoughts exactly. Give the $5000 back to Apple, do a little community service, learn a valuable life lesson on not being a dick in local bars. Everybody wins.

maxharris 17y ago
No. His theft resulted in Apple's loss of millions of dollars in trade secrets and marketing. $5000 is not even a drop in this bucket - it's really beside the point completely (it is merely strong evidence of his guilt). He belongs in prison if he is found guilty on the broader principle of justice. I am referring to the principle that says that a man that robs you as a private citizen should get at least as severe a penalty as someone that robs a large group of people (in this case, Apple's employees and shareholders). This is required if we are to maintain our rule of law and the benefits that it entails.
- noonespecial 17y ago
  If he had robbed me personally in a non-violent manner, he quite likely would receive a punishment much like I described. Maybe even less. His theft resulted in Apple's loss of millions of dollars in trade secrets and marketing. That's one claim that would require a mountain of proof. Until then, prototype or not, its a $400 phone.
  - maxharris 17y ago
    > mountain of proof When Apple almost went bankrupt in 1997, they were one really leaky ship. Everyone knew what they were working on, so when Macworld time came around, there were no real surprises. Steve Jobs realized that they were losing millions in publicity by screwing this up, and he stopped the leaks and saved Apple. Obviously he did a lot of other things that had a lot to do with their success, but stopping the leaks did have a very measurable impact on them. Edit: I forgot to mention this earlier, but the Osborne effect is probably the larger factor to consider here. Lots of people will be waiting to get new iPhones now (myself included).
  - tptacek 17y ago
    $400? What are you talking about? Apple's margins on the iPhone are reportedly between 20-50%; by your logic, since Apple itself lost the phone, this guy should only be on the hook for ~$300 or so! Of course, using reality-based logic, the story is a little different. The reality is that if this incident caused Apple to reschedule the iPhone unveiling by one day, or pushed the release date of the phone back by a week, or took an engineering team offline for a couple days, or forced Apple to spend 80 billable hours with outside counsel, or... look, there's probably not a single action Apple could have taken in response to this that doesn't immediately incur 5-6 figure damages. Could this guy have possibly realized that? Not Apple's problem. Not the world's greatest caper, this one.

allwein 17y ago

"I walk into a coffee shop and 'find' an unattended laptop sitting on one of the tables, so I decide to close it up and take it home with me." Nobody I've talked to seems to think that this scenario is okay or would consider the laptop "lost".

tptacek 17y ago

He's not going to prison. He could have taken the phone out of the engineer's pocket intentionally and still not go to prison.

look_lookatme 17y ago
I don't really think he is, I'm just bothered by some of the sentiments floated around here about the severity of the crime.
- tptacek 17y ago
  If, walking down the street, I found the keys to a Porsche 911, picked them up, and sold them to someone I knew would later steal the car, all I'd be is a car thief. It takes creative stupidity to do the amount of damage these guys did with their crime.
- mos1 17y ago
  I'm bothered by sentiments such as yours, indicating that selling other people's property for a profit isn't unethical, immoral or criminal.