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Remember that the most vocal are the most dissatisfied. Also remember that at a company that large there are going to be more dissatisfied than smaller compani

Remember that the most vocal are the most dissatisfied. Also remember that at a company that large there are going to be more dissatisfied than smaller companies. Lastly, don't forget that no one wants to read a story about an upset engineer from a small no name company. People like seeing big brand names fail and we as a society are a sucker for a negative drama. They retain people because not every team is like what you read in the news. There are teams with completely normal on-calls who love their life and job and are far from upset with anything that has to do with work. Free food isn't a deal breaker when you make what companies like Amazon pay.

jcrites 10y ago
> Lastly, don't forget that no one wants to read a story about an upset engineer from a small no name company. People also don't particularly want to read a story from a happy engineer at a big company either. Additionally, the unhappy person who has an axe to grind is likely to go out of his way to publicize it, talk to reporters about it or write comments on the Internet about it. Happy employees are less likely to go out of their way to comment on the experience, and what they have to say is less notable on average.
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
> Remember that the most vocal are the most dissatisfied. Also remember that at a company that large there are going to be more dissatisfied than smaller companies. Lastly, don't forget that no one wants to read a story about an upset engineer from a small no name company. People like seeing big brand names fail and we as a society are a sucker for a negative drama. If that was the sum of it, you'd expect to hear just as much bad stuff about Microsoft, Google, Apple, and so forth. That doesn't seem to be happening at the moment.
Bahamut 10y ago
There are significantly more of these stories out there on Amazon than the other major tech companies it seems - I haven't heard of anywhere near as many stories coming from Google, Facebook, or Apple.
- ekianjo 10y ago
  Negative stories that make it into the press are rare events and therefore it's difficult to compare if there is much more dissatisfaction in one company vs another. A better indicator is turnover rate.
  - notyourwork 10y ago
    Completely agree, I have only heard of a few stories so I don't think we can conclude about one company over another. Turnover rate does sound like a much better general indicator.
  - marssaxman 10y ago
    It is obvious just from having lived in Seattle for a good long while that something is up with Amazon. They are notorious for employee churn, and it's easy to see this in my circle of acquaintances, many if not most of whom work in software. People do quit Microsoft, Google, or Facebook from time to time, but it's generally a long-term engagement; Amazon is a place where even relatively senior people don't seem to stick around more than a couple of years. It's not a scientific study but I don't need scientific accuracy in order to get a pretty clear idea where I would or would not want to work.
ex_amazon_sde 10y ago
Your post sounds strangely onesided. Amazon turnover rate for engineers is the highest across the usual names. 50% of engineers leave before 2y.
- notyourwork 10y ago
  Its not one sided, its a general statement that the people who love their job don't go jumping off buildings or having suicidal thoughts. They wake up, goto work and come home. Also, where do you get a 50% of engineers leave before 2y?
- selectiveshift 10y ago
  As does yours. Any data to back up that number, or just anecdotal evidence?
allengeorge 10y ago
The volume of stories coming out of Amazon far outstrips those from Google or Facebook for example.
- notyourwork 10y ago
  "Far outstrips" feels like an exaggeration of the problem considering the publics lack of data.
coredog64 10y ago
Interviewed with Amazon, and they were offering less than my current salary in a market where housing isn't nearly as crazy as Seattle.
- uw_rob 10y ago
  Did you try negotiating? Despite conventional wisdom, (at least with some offered salaries), you can negotiate a raise. I got a significant increase in salary when negotiating for my return internship offer.

jcrites 10y ago

> Lastly, don't forget that no one wants to read a story about an upset engineer from a small no name company. People also don't particularly want to read a story from a happy engineer at a big company either. Additionally, the unhappy person who has an axe to grind is likely to go out of his way to publicize it, talk to reporters about it or write comments on the Internet about it. Happy employees are less likely to go out of their way to comment on the experience, and what they have to say is less notable on average.

PhasmaFelis 10y ago

> Remember that the most vocal are the most dissatisfied. Also remember that at a company that large there are going to be more dissatisfied than smaller companies. Lastly, don't forget that no one wants to read a story about an upset engineer from a small no name company. People like seeing big brand names fail and we as a society are a sucker for a negative drama. If that was the sum of it, you'd expect to hear just as much bad stuff about Microsoft, Google, Apple, and so forth. That doesn't seem to be happening at the moment.

Bahamut 10y ago

There are significantly more of these stories out there on Amazon than the other major tech companies it seems - I haven't heard of anywhere near as many stories coming from Google, Facebook, or Apple.

ekianjo 10y ago
Negative stories that make it into the press are rare events and therefore it's difficult to compare if there is much more dissatisfaction in one company vs another. A better indicator is turnover rate.
- notyourwork 10y ago
  Completely agree, I have only heard of a few stories so I don't think we can conclude about one company over another. Turnover rate does sound like a much better general indicator.
- marssaxman 10y ago
  It is obvious just from having lived in Seattle for a good long while that something is up with Amazon. They are notorious for employee churn, and it's easy to see this in my circle of acquaintances, many if not most of whom work in software. People do quit Microsoft, Google, or Facebook from time to time, but it's generally a long-term engagement; Amazon is a place where even relatively senior people don't seem to stick around more than a couple of years. It's not a scientific study but I don't need scientific accuracy in order to get a pretty clear idea where I would or would not want to work.

ex_amazon_sde 10y ago

Your post sounds strangely onesided. Amazon turnover rate for engineers is the highest across the usual names. 50% of engineers leave before 2y.

notyourwork 10y ago
Its not one sided, its a general statement that the people who love their job don't go jumping off buildings or having suicidal thoughts. They wake up, goto work and come home. Also, where do you get a 50% of engineers leave before 2y?
selectiveshift 10y ago
As does yours. Any data to back up that number, or just anecdotal evidence?

allengeorge 10y ago

The volume of stories coming out of Amazon far outstrips those from Google or Facebook for example.

notyourwork 10y ago
"Far outstrips" feels like an exaggeration of the problem considering the publics lack of data.

coredog64 10y ago

Interviewed with Amazon, and they were offering less than my current salary in a market where housing isn't nearly as crazy as Seattle.

uw_rob 10y ago
Did you try negotiating? Despite conventional wisdom, (at least with some offered salaries), you can negotiate a raise. I got a significant increase in salary when negotiating for my return internship offer.