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I only stayed at Amazon for one year, but I was told that if I'd stayed for two years they would have offered me more equity. So yes, there are refresh equity

I only stayed at Amazon for one year, but I was told that if I'd stayed for two years they would have offered me more equity. So yes, there are refresh equity grants. I've heard from a good source that they do that at Apple as well.

jonathankoren 10y ago
I've heard Apple's equity grants are stupid though. Instead of the standard grant-value / share-price-at-hire = number of shares, and then then vesting the number of shares over 4 years, Apple vests the grant-value over 4 years and then converts to stock using the share price at the time of vesting. This of course results in lower compensation over the vesting schedule assuming an appreciating stock price.
- Buge 10y ago
  That seems useless to me. I thought the whole idea of stock grants is to motivate employees by rewarding them when the company does well and the stock goes up.
- gohrt 10y ago
  They don't convert like you say, what they do it cut refreshes. Example: You get $100K and $50K of stock (grant value): "target compensation" = $150K Next year, when stock vests, your target compensation is $160K, so you get $110K cash plus a stock refresh grant: * Stock went down to $0 -> $100K refresh to make up. * Stock stayed flat: -> $50K refresh * Stock went up to $100K: -> 0K refresh to cancel out. * Stock went up to $150K: -> 0K refresh to cancel out, but you still come out ahead. So, you get upside if the stock shoots up enough, and you are protected from downside, but you lose upside if stock grows insufficiently. It works well if you like guaranteed income, but you have to ignore a lot of the "expect" upside potential. And it makes you wonder why they bother giving so much equity, doesn't it? 1. They don't give a lot of equity. 2. It's a shell game and most new hires don't value the offer accurately.
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
    So you're saying your initial grant remains untouched? So assuming $50k per year in stock for 4 years, after 4 years you'd get $200k plus the delta on 4 years of stock growth?
- ridiculous_fish 10y ago
  FWIW, during my time at Apple, equity grants worked in the usual way of converting completely to a share count on the grant date. I never saw the grant-value vesting that you describe.
amzn-336495 10y ago
There are refresh equity grants unless you are on a PIP. Now you know what all the fucking PIPs are all about at Amazon (other than blocking your transfer). You should not listen to what anyone at Amazon tells you.
- SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
  Did you notice the part where I worked at Amazon in-house for a year? I was a consultant for them for six month before that as well. And my experience was pretty awesome. I did hear about PIP issues, though. That does suck. I'd probably just quit if it happened to me. I have a low tolerance for crap at work. I like the "get severance pay" strategy someone mentioned. I was only working there at all because the money and people were great.

jonathankoren 10y ago

I've heard Apple's equity grants are stupid though. Instead of the standard grant-value / share-price-at-hire = number of shares, and then then vesting the number of shares over 4 years, Apple vests the grant-value over 4 years and then converts to stock using the share price at the time of vesting. This of course results in lower compensation over the vesting schedule assuming an appreciating stock price.

Buge 10y ago
That seems useless to me. I thought the whole idea of stock grants is to motivate employees by rewarding them when the company does well and the stock goes up.
gohrt 10y ago
They don't convert like you say, what they do it cut refreshes. Example: You get $100K and $50K of stock (grant value): "target compensation" = $150K Next year, when stock vests, your target compensation is $160K, so you get $110K cash plus a stock refresh grant: * Stock went down to $0 -> $100K refresh to make up. * Stock stayed flat: -> $50K refresh * Stock went up to $100K: -> 0K refresh to cancel out. * Stock went up to $150K: -> 0K refresh to cancel out, but you still come out ahead. So, you get upside if the stock shoots up enough, and you are protected from downside, but you lose upside if stock grows insufficiently. It works well if you like guaranteed income, but you have to ignore a lot of the "expect" upside potential. And it makes you wonder why they bother giving so much equity, doesn't it? 1. They don't give a lot of equity. 2. It's a shell game and most new hires don't value the offer accurately.
- jonathankoren 10y ago
  So you're saying your initial grant remains untouched? So assuming $50k per year in stock for 4 years, after 4 years you'd get $200k plus the delta on 4 years of stock growth?
ridiculous_fish 10y ago
FWIW, during my time at Apple, equity grants worked in the usual way of converting completely to a share count on the grant date. I never saw the grant-value vesting that you describe.

amzn-336495 10y ago

There are refresh equity grants unless you are on a PIP. Now you know what all the fucking PIPs are all about at Amazon (other than blocking your transfer). You should not listen to what anyone at Amazon tells you.

SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
Did you notice the part where I worked at Amazon in-house for a year? I was a consultant for them for six month before that as well. And my experience was pretty awesome. I did hear about PIP issues, though. That does suck. I'd probably just quit if it happened to me. I have a low tolerance for crap at work. I like the "get severance pay" strategy someone mentioned. I was only working there at all because the money and people were great.