6 ms·

I was at AWS for six months as a contractor and a year as an SDE3. Equity vesting was low for the first year, but they gave me a (cash) signing bonus that made

I was at AWS for six months as a contractor and a year as an SDE3. Equity vesting was low for the first year, but they gave me a (cash) signing bonus that made up for it. Pretty much one-to-one based on the starting value of the equity, and it paid out monthly instead of waiting until the end of the year. The cafes were awesome and the prices there were decent. I was paid more than enough to buy my own lunch. Catered food is a cute perk, but it's hardly critical. I don't drink soda, but they had free coffee and tea. Tea is my drink of choice, so I was happy. Soda is bad for you anyway. ;) They did have free "snacks" if you count breakfast cereal. Which many people would grab a cup full of as a snack (there were no bowls, oddly enough). There were a mountain of breakfast cereal boxes on every floor near the kitchen. But yes, they also had paid snack machines. The oncall routines were terrible, though, I agree. Luckily I was in a strange situation and was able to avoid them. Our team was far better, technically speaking, than what you describe. Everyone was a pretty awesome developer, including my manager, who was really awesome overall. Developers went home at night; no one was being driven as if in a sweatshop. We had game nights and played board games. Periodic team dinners (that were awesome!). It was a blast. And I think the latter really makes the difference. There are 20,000 people working at Amazon, according to the article. When you scale that big, some corners of the org are going to suck, and some will be better. I may someday return to Amazon, now that they have an office near me in Colorado. But I'm still working on the game that I put on hold while I worked at Amazon, and I need to finish it before I reattach the golden handcuffs.

amazon_employee 10y ago
Wow, someone that isn't comparing Amazon to Stalinist Russia.
gambler 10y ago
The oncall routines were terrible, though, I agree. Luckily I was in a strange situation and was able to avoid them. I would think that Amazon of all places would automate anything they could.
- sulam 10y ago
  No incentive at best, disincentive usually. There is a steady stream of new grads willing to put up with it for a couple years. The horrible vesting means you aren't paying much for them, not to mention salaries are mildly low to start with. I have repeatedly heard these stories about Amazon -- it is one of the known-bad places to work, unless you have found a truly special situation. Keep in mind this is only compared to other tech employers. It's fine compared to games companies, non-tech companies that won't value your work, and most jobs if you're not privileged enough to be a software developer.
  - btdiehr 10y ago
    > if you're not privileged enough to be a software developer. Being a software developer isn't a privilege, it's a choice.
    - sulam 10y ago
      Being able to make that choice is a privilege.
      - btdiehr 10y ago
        How do you figure?
        SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
        Not the OP, but: * Access to educational opportunities as a child (the "easy" path to developing the right brain structures software engineers need) * Lacking the first point, the extreme amount of time and the tolerance for the effort involved in "learning how to think" as an adult. * The free time to learn to become a software engineer. * Ideally the money to get a CS degree or equivalent. * Raw aptitude. Some people are genuinely not cut out for it.
        btdiehr 10y ago
gaius 10y ago
SDE3? Isn't that a semi-mythical level with just a handful of people? I suspect your experience is atypical.
- rifung 10y ago
  From what I remember almost everyone will get promoted from SDE1 to SDE2 in around ~2 years. Getting promoted to SDE3 is not as easy but it's not really that rare either. It'd be really bizarre for almost everyone to be stuck at SDE2 considering how easy it is to get there.
- jsolson 10y ago
  Not really. Principal, maybe, but SDE3 is a position you can be easily hired into with enough experience. As a promo it's a bitch, though, and absolutely not worth it. Jump ships for something level equivalent at a company with better comp and get promoted there. I say this having stuck it out at Amazon for SDE3 before jumping ship. My only regret is that I stayed too long.
  - uw_rob 10y ago
    How long did you stay at Amazon? Did you start as a SDE1?
    - jsolson 10y ago
      I should really find a better way to phrase that comment. I wasn't actually there for that long (a bit over two years), but I still regret not leaving sooner. I was hired in as an SDE2, which at the time was probably the right level due to lack of experience with large companies, but I outgrew it pretty quickly. The SDE3 promo process involved a staggering amount of hoop jumping specifically so my manager could put together my packet. My manager was fairly transparent about the checklist nature of the process, but it clearly involved an even more staggering amount of work for him preparing a packet for me. When I say I should've left sooner it's because for all the effort put into it I ended up taking a substantial pay raise and a level drop when I finally did leave five months later (and went through a much lighter weight promo process shortly after joining my new gig that I would've been able to pursue regardless). It's possible the promo put me in a better negotiating position, but given that I didn't disclose my current compensation during negotiation I can't say that with any confidence.
ex_amazon_sde 10y ago
> Our team was far better, technically speaking, than what you describe. Everyone was a pretty awesome developer, including my manager, who was really awesome overall. I've been in many teams and I can agree there are many strong developers. > Developers went home at night; no one was being driven as if in a sweatshop. Maybe not like sweatshops, but I've met many tenths of people that left because of the constant pressure to deliver combined with the oncall duties. Once I witnessed a whole team disappearing in a short time. > We had game nights and played board games. Periodic team dinners (that were awesome!). It was a blast. We too, but phrased like this makes it sounds like Amazon is a relaxed and laid-back company. Far from it.
- SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
  >We too, but phrased like this makes it sounds like Amazon is a relaxed and laid-back company. Far from it. Amazon is strict about a lot of things, but as far as workload -- well, I'm quite a fast developer, and I almost always was way ahead of the curve in getting things done. Very low stress for me. Big reason I quit is that I was bored, in fact. Despite asking for more work. Despite taking on random extra team projects to create tooling to improve source control processes. And writing tools that were used elsewhere in the company. Etc. etc.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

amazon_employee 10y ago

Wow, someone that isn't comparing Amazon to Stalinist Russia.

gambler 10y ago

The oncall routines were terrible, though, I agree. Luckily I was in a strange situation and was able to avoid them. I would think that Amazon of all places would automate anything they could.

sulam 10y ago
No incentive at best, disincentive usually. There is a steady stream of new grads willing to put up with it for a couple years. The horrible vesting means you aren't paying much for them, not to mention salaries are mildly low to start with. I have repeatedly heard these stories about Amazon -- it is one of the known-bad places to work, unless you have found a truly special situation. Keep in mind this is only compared to other tech employers. It's fine compared to games companies, non-tech companies that won't value your work, and most jobs if you're not privileged enough to be a software developer.
- btdiehr 10y ago
  > if you're not privileged enough to be a software developer. Being a software developer isn't a privilege, it's a choice.
  - sulam 10y ago
    Being able to make that choice is a privilege.
    - btdiehr 10y ago
      How do you figure?
      - SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
        Not the OP, but: * Access to educational opportunities as a child (the "easy" path to developing the right brain structures software engineers need) * Lacking the first point, the extreme amount of time and the tolerance for the effort involved in "learning how to think" as an adult. * The free time to learn to become a software engineer. * Ideally the money to get a CS degree or equivalent. * Raw aptitude. Some people are genuinely not cut out for it.
        btdiehr 10y ago

gaius 10y ago

SDE3? Isn't that a semi-mythical level with just a handful of people? I suspect your experience is atypical.

rifung 10y ago
From what I remember almost everyone will get promoted from SDE1 to SDE2 in around ~2 years. Getting promoted to SDE3 is not as easy but it's not really that rare either. It'd be really bizarre for almost everyone to be stuck at SDE2 considering how easy it is to get there.
jsolson 10y ago
Not really. Principal, maybe, but SDE3 is a position you can be easily hired into with enough experience. As a promo it's a bitch, though, and absolutely not worth it. Jump ships for something level equivalent at a company with better comp and get promoted there. I say this having stuck it out at Amazon for SDE3 before jumping ship. My only regret is that I stayed too long.
- uw_rob 10y ago
  How long did you stay at Amazon? Did you start as a SDE1?
  - jsolson 10y ago
    I should really find a better way to phrase that comment. I wasn't actually there for that long (a bit over two years), but I still regret not leaving sooner. I was hired in as an SDE2, which at the time was probably the right level due to lack of experience with large companies, but I outgrew it pretty quickly. The SDE3 promo process involved a staggering amount of hoop jumping specifically so my manager could put together my packet. My manager was fairly transparent about the checklist nature of the process, but it clearly involved an even more staggering amount of work for him preparing a packet for me. When I say I should've left sooner it's because for all the effort put into it I ended up taking a substantial pay raise and a level drop when I finally did leave five months later (and went through a much lighter weight promo process shortly after joining my new gig that I would've been able to pursue regardless). It's possible the promo put me in a better negotiating position, but given that I didn't disclose my current compensation during negotiation I can't say that with any confidence.

ex_amazon_sde 10y ago

> Our team was far better, technically speaking, than what you describe. Everyone was a pretty awesome developer, including my manager, who was really awesome overall. I've been in many teams and I can agree there are many strong developers. > Developers went home at night; no one was being driven as if in a sweatshop. Maybe not like sweatshops, but I've met many tenths of people that left because of the constant pressure to deliver combined with the oncall duties. Once I witnessed a whole team disappearing in a short time. > We had game nights and played board games. Periodic team dinners (that were awesome!). It was a blast. We too, but phrased like this makes it sounds like Amazon is a relaxed and laid-back company. Far from it.

SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
>We too, but phrased like this makes it sounds like Amazon is a relaxed and laid-back company. Far from it. Amazon is strict about a lot of things, but as far as workload -- well, I'm quite a fast developer, and I almost always was way ahead of the curve in getting things done. Very low stress for me. Big reason I quit is that I was bored, in fact. Despite asking for more work. Despite taking on random extra team projects to create tooling to improve source control processes. And writing tools that were used elsewhere in the company. Etc. etc.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]