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I was interviewing for AWS, and it was a circus. Completely disorganized. However, I have to say, I enjoyed the parroting back of "the leadership principles" pa

by rdtsc 10y ago

I was interviewing for AWS, and it was a circus. Completely disorganized. However, I have to say, I enjoyed the parroting back of "the leadership principles" part. It was like being in the Soviet Union again and singing praises to the great party leaders. Very much worth wasting a day over it. However my nephew didn't have such a fun time. He was working for one of their warehouses in Kentucky and they were ruthless to the workers like him. They had a snow storm, he got stuck in the snow and instead of being understanding they reprimanded him for it. He liked the pay but couldn't take the humiliating treatment, so he quit.

morganvachon 10y ago
> They had a snow storm, he got stuck in the snow and instead of being understanding they reprimanded him for it. Punishing an employee for risking their life to try to come in to a job they already hate? That's textbook sadism, ruthless is too weak a word. In inclement weather our critical staff can depend on officers in 4x4 vehicles to bring them in, with no reprimand for being late due to the weather. Non-essential staff are encouraged to stay home and avoid injury and possible death trying to make it to work.
- linkregister 10y ago
  This is the reality for the lower quartile of the American workforce. When I was a part of it, I faced either braving the snow and icy roads or getting fired. I left an hour early because I knew I would be driving about 20 miles per hour. I'm not condoning this practice, just providing context. The state governor's prohibition on road travel be damned. The next time it snows, think about how the workers in your pharmacy or bar got to work while you have the day off. Incidentally, one of my coworkers actually suggested our manager pick him up in a 4x4 during a particularly brutal blizzard. The request was laughed off; there was no way it was worth the fuel and time to go pick up the worker to come to work. It makes sense; a sub- $20-per-hour worker is too cheap for it to work out in most cases. The humane thing to do is just to leave the store or bar closed if staff have to come in. But that extra $1000 of net revenue sounds tempting...
  - asddddd 10y ago
    On the other hand, working in a union warehouse (UPS), this has in fact happened - people getting picked up so they can make it in despite weather, since it's the lower management that would get shafted otherwise. This time of year nominally part time workers are pulling 10+ hour days due to massive volume, so missing a lot of people is a huge issue. Amazon warehouses are notorious for being shitty to work in even considering the type of job, considering logistics jobs like this are sucky in general, that's tough to do.
- a3n 10y ago
  > Punishing an employee for risking their life to try to come in to a job they already hate? As long as there are more than enough people to hire for a position, managers and policy will tend toward lazy and controlling, it's easier than cultivating people.
- serge2k 10y ago
  This is the same company that stationed ambulances outside of a fulfillment center instead of paying for Air Conditioning. They also went to the supreme court (and won) over making people wait in line (unpaid) for 25 minutes before and after work in order to do security checks.
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    Wait, was it the US Supreme Court? How did they win? I ask only because Cargill just lost a very similar suit over failing to pay employees for suit-up/down time before and after their shifts, which I thought would apply here.
    - serge2k 10y ago
      So it was actually a contractor, but Amazon was involved in the case. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/business/supreme-court-rules-against-worker-pay-for-security-screenings.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/business/supreme-court-rul...
amazon_employee 10y ago
Sorry to hear that. I work for AWS, and I like to think we're pretty organized. I'm not sure what part of your experience was "unorganized". You probably caught the team on a busy day or something. LPs are just guidelines for what the company "wants" out of its employees. They're used heavily in hiring to weed out small thinkers and bad culture fits, and a bit in performance reviews. Outside of that, nobody really cares about them. You get upper management worship anywhere. It's the same thing as obsessing over celebrities. Judging corporate based on fulfillment center working conditions isn't fair. One is a $15k job, and the other is a $115k job.
- gohrt 10y ago
  $115k is embarrassingly non-competitive for the talent and work Amazon expects.
  - serge2k 10y ago
    It's not bad for Seattle, and they have been doing amazing on stock price the last couple years which helps. Especially when they backload the initial stock vesting.
- wbsun 10y ago
  > Judging corporate based on fulfillment center working conditions isn't fair. One is a $15k job, and the other is a $115k job. Yes, yes, because you earn more, you'd better work as a slave... wait, do slaves get salary at all? Ah, no, okay, so everyone who earns money must work harder than a slave!!!
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  > Judging corporate based on fulfillment center working conditions isn't fair. One is a $15k job, and the other is a $115k job. That's completely backwards. Even asshole managers will treat their high-value employees relatively well, unless they're stupid--you don't want to kill the golden goose. It's how they treat the low-skill, low-wage guys at the bottom that tells you what kind of people they really are.
- serge2k 10y ago
Dickie_Sticks 10y ago
Over the course of my career Amazon is the only place I've interviewed and come away having lost all desire to work there.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  I was warned that for my online programming interview with Amazon, I needed to submit a picture then spend the entire interview with my face clearly in the frame of a webcam. Any movement out of the frame or connectivity issue would be viewed as potential cheating and terminate the interview. My internet at the time was a bit shoddy, and I figured there was a very real chance that I would lose video briefly and get booted. I may have had a weird experience, but the entire pipeline process was a hostile and miserable one.
jsolson 10y ago
So, the great irony of the leadership principles was the lip service they were paid at Amazon and how much I miss them since leaving. They're a seriously good bit of Amazon culture that's been perverted into something you can use to submarine any meeting. If treated honestly, they seem (to me, anyway), like a fantastic set of rules for governing a company's actions. Sadly, it's difficult to align incentives with actually honoring and encouraging those principles :(

by rdtsc 10y ago

morganvachon 10y ago

> They had a snow storm, he got stuck in the snow and instead of being understanding they reprimanded him for it. Punishing an employee for risking their life to try to come in to a job they already hate? That's textbook sadism, ruthless is too weak a word. In inclement weather our critical staff can depend on officers in 4x4 vehicles to bring them in, with no reprimand for being late due to the weather. Non-essential staff are encouraged to stay home and avoid injury and possible death trying to make it to work.

linkregister 10y ago
This is the reality for the lower quartile of the American workforce. When I was a part of it, I faced either braving the snow and icy roads or getting fired. I left an hour early because I knew I would be driving about 20 miles per hour. I'm not condoning this practice, just providing context. The state governor's prohibition on road travel be damned. The next time it snows, think about how the workers in your pharmacy or bar got to work while you have the day off. Incidentally, one of my coworkers actually suggested our manager pick him up in a 4x4 during a particularly brutal blizzard. The request was laughed off; there was no way it was worth the fuel and time to go pick up the worker to come to work. It makes sense; a sub- $20-per-hour worker is too cheap for it to work out in most cases. The humane thing to do is just to leave the store or bar closed if staff have to come in. But that extra $1000 of net revenue sounds tempting...
- asddddd 10y ago
  On the other hand, working in a union warehouse (UPS), this has in fact happened - people getting picked up so they can make it in despite weather, since it's the lower management that would get shafted otherwise. This time of year nominally part time workers are pulling 10+ hour days due to massive volume, so missing a lot of people is a huge issue. Amazon warehouses are notorious for being shitty to work in even considering the type of job, considering logistics jobs like this are sucky in general, that's tough to do.
a3n 10y ago
> Punishing an employee for risking their life to try to come in to a job they already hate? As long as there are more than enough people to hire for a position, managers and policy will tend toward lazy and controlling, it's easier than cultivating people.
serge2k 10y ago
This is the same company that stationed ambulances outside of a fulfillment center instead of paying for Air Conditioning. They also went to the supreme court (and won) over making people wait in line (unpaid) for 25 minutes before and after work in order to do security checks.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  Wait, was it the US Supreme Court? How did they win? I ask only because Cargill just lost a very similar suit over failing to pay employees for suit-up/down time before and after their shifts, which I thought would apply here.
  - serge2k 10y ago
    So it was actually a contractor, but Amazon was involved in the case. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/business/supreme-court-rules-against-worker-pay-for-security-screenings.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/business/supreme-court-rul...

amazon_employee 10y ago

Sorry to hear that. I work for AWS, and I like to think we're pretty organized. I'm not sure what part of your experience was "unorganized". You probably caught the team on a busy day or something. LPs are just guidelines for what the company "wants" out of its employees. They're used heavily in hiring to weed out small thinkers and bad culture fits, and a bit in performance reviews. Outside of that, nobody really cares about them. You get upper management worship anywhere. It's the same thing as obsessing over celebrities. Judging corporate based on fulfillment center working conditions isn't fair. One is a $15k job, and the other is a $115k job.

gohrt 10y ago
$115k is embarrassingly non-competitive for the talent and work Amazon expects.
- serge2k 10y ago
  It's not bad for Seattle, and they have been doing amazing on stock price the last couple years which helps. Especially when they backload the initial stock vesting.
wbsun 10y ago
> Judging corporate based on fulfillment center working conditions isn't fair. One is a $15k job, and the other is a $115k job. Yes, yes, because you earn more, you'd better work as a slave... wait, do slaves get salary at all? Ah, no, okay, so everyone who earns money must work harder than a slave!!!
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
> Judging corporate based on fulfillment center working conditions isn't fair. One is a $15k job, and the other is a $115k job. That's completely backwards. Even asshole managers will treat their high-value employees relatively well, unless they're stupid--you don't want to kill the golden goose. It's how they treat the low-skill, low-wage guys at the bottom that tells you what kind of people they really are.
serge2k 10y ago

Dickie_Sticks 10y ago

Over the course of my career Amazon is the only place I've interviewed and come away having lost all desire to work there.

Bartweiss 10y ago
I was warned that for my online programming interview with Amazon, I needed to submit a picture then spend the entire interview with my face clearly in the frame of a webcam. Any movement out of the frame or connectivity issue would be viewed as potential cheating and terminate the interview. My internet at the time was a bit shoddy, and I figured there was a very real chance that I would lose video briefly and get booted. I may have had a weird experience, but the entire pipeline process was a hostile and miserable one.

jsolson 10y ago

So, the great irony of the leadership principles was the lip service they were paid at Amazon and how much I miss them since leaving. They're a seriously good bit of Amazon culture that's been perverted into something you can use to submarine any meeting. If treated honestly, they seem (to me, anyway), like a fantastic set of rules for governing a company's actions. Sadly, it's difficult to align incentives with actually honoring and encouraging those principles :(