4 ms·

Not familiar with "two wrongs don't make a right"?

by Trundle 10y ago

grzm 10y ago
I think you're implying that those punishments are wrong. What would be justice in your eyes for the three crimes described? To mine, the proportionality seems more than a little out of whack. - Stolen TV (let's say $1000 burglary) - Stolen car (let's say $15,000) - $500MM fraud
- Trundle 10y ago
  Mostly I'm implying that your argument doesn't hold weight. You don't throw someone in prison because if you don't there's a double standard with some other offence. You throw them in there because the crime they committed warranted it. I'll play anyway for funzies though. First offence? All 3 should be a non-bankruptable fine with a floor that also scales with historical earnings and wealth. I can't give specific numbers because I think it should be set at figures large enough to act as a suitable deterrent which I don't know and would need to research. Since in a scenario where I'm magically put in charge of the legal system I would have the means and incentive to do that research, I think that's fair on my part. Potentially some public shaming involving stocks and vegetable throwing depending on its cost effectiveness as a deterrent as well. I imagine the fine amount would be far greater for the fraud though, which would help with the lack of proportionality.
  - grzm 10y ago
    Thank you for a much more thoughtful comment. I think you make a lot of good points. Do you think that the fines should be proportionate with respect to the status of the person convicted? I think one issue is the perception that some very rich people can afford to pay those large fines, which acts as less of a deterrent.
    - Trundle 10y ago
      Absolutely, that's what I meant by "scales with historical earnings and wealth."
      - grzm 10y ago
        So you did. Sorry I missed that. Cheers!
  - qyv 10y ago
    I'm curious, so what do you do if the fine is never paid? ETA: IS a non-bankruptable fne proportional if the fraud actually bankrupted many others? What if the consequence of the fraud on said victims then led them to further crimes which led them to a ruined life of pverty and squalor? Is a non-bankruptable fine still proportionate? What if it led to suicide, or armed robbery, or even murder...

Not familiar with "two wrongs don't make a right"?

by Trundle 10y ago

Not familiar with "two wrongs don't make a right"?

grzm 10y ago

I think you're implying that those punishments are wrong. What would be justice in your eyes for the three crimes described? To mine, the proportionality seems more than a little out of whack. - Stolen TV (let's say $1000 burglary) - Stolen car (let's say $15,000) - $500MM fraud

Trundle 10y ago
Mostly I'm implying that your argument doesn't hold weight. You don't throw someone in prison because if you don't there's a double standard with some other offence. You throw them in there because the crime they committed warranted it. I'll play anyway for funzies though. First offence? All 3 should be a non-bankruptable fine with a floor that also scales with historical earnings and wealth. I can't give specific numbers because I think it should be set at figures large enough to act as a suitable deterrent which I don't know and would need to research. Since in a scenario where I'm magically put in charge of the legal system I would have the means and incentive to do that research, I think that's fair on my part. Potentially some public shaming involving stocks and vegetable throwing depending on its cost effectiveness as a deterrent as well. I imagine the fine amount would be far greater for the fraud though, which would help with the lack of proportionality.
- grzm 10y ago
  Thank you for a much more thoughtful comment. I think you make a lot of good points. Do you think that the fines should be proportionate with respect to the status of the person convicted? I think one issue is the perception that some very rich people can afford to pay those large fines, which acts as less of a deterrent.
  - Trundle 10y ago
    Absolutely, that's what I meant by "scales with historical earnings and wealth."
    - grzm 10y ago
      So you did. Sorry I missed that. Cheers!
- qyv 10y ago
  I'm curious, so what do you do if the fine is never paid? ETA: IS a non-bankruptable fne proportional if the fraud actually bankrupted many others? What if the consequence of the fraud on said victims then led them to further crimes which led them to a ruined life of pverty and squalor? Is a non-bankruptable fine still proportionate? What if it led to suicide, or armed robbery, or even murder...