3 ms·

Homeopathic Medicine Labels Now Must State Products Do Not Work

51 points by triplesec 10y ago

macawfish 10y ago
This headline blatantly misrepresents the contents of the article. The products are required to state that there is no scientific evidence that the products work. Even that is not entirely true. There is plenty of evidence that placebo and "nocebo" effects are powerful, real aspects of the healing process. Homeopathy engages this shamelessly. http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/01/the-placebo-phenomenon http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/01/the-placebo-phenomenon
- deutronium 10y ago
  Don't homeopathic medicines claim they work via water memory though, which has been debunked. If you wanted to make use of the placebo effect from what I recall syringes have a more powerful effect than pills etc.
  - explorigin 10y ago
    Some do, others are based on other principles (Eastern medicine body energy etc.). We have homeopathic "cold pills" available at our local (mainstream) drugstore that visibly reduces a runny nose in our toddler when he has a cold. I've never _not_ seen these specific pills work in this way on small children. Does it defy conventional science? Sure. Do other homeopathic remedies work this well? No. Will I stop recommending them? Not to people with the brains to make a objective judgement about them. (Confirmation bias is the best friend of the placebo effect.) You just have to try different ones to find what works and what doesn't. Body chemistry is more complicated than big pharma would have us to believe ("ask your doctor if * is right for you").
    - nathan_f77 10y ago
      > We have homeopathic "cold pills" available at our local (mainstream) drugstore that visibly reduces a runny nose It could be something simple like the act of swallowing that briefly clears up the runny nose. Next time you could just try a glass of water and see if that has the same effect. > I've never _not_ seen these specific pills work in this way on small children. I think it really could just be the action of swallowing. It could be the placebo effect. Or it could just be the running nose clearing up by itself. Next time you should try some NyQuil Cold & Flu. It's very safe, and it contains a nasal decongestant (phenylephrine). Homeopathic medicine doesn't contain any medicine, by definition. And even if they did contain some medicine, the active ingredient is supposed to be bad for you! It just makes no sense. > You just have to try different ones to find what works and what doesn't. It's good when you find one that works, because then you can use any of them. > Body chemistry is more complicated than big pharma would have us to believe Homeopathy chemistry is quite simple, though (H2O). I'm sorry if that's too harsh. I should mention that I've actually learned some new things about medicine recently. I always thought that generic drugs were identical to brand-name drugs, and that buying drugs from the original manufacturer was always a waste of money. That belief quickly disappeared after reading this article: http://fortune.com/2013/01/10/are-generics-really-the-same-as-branded-drugs/ http://fortune.com/2013/01/10/are-generics-really-the-same-a... It's easy to see how a poorly imitated time-release mechanisms can lead to problems when the drug is released too quickly or too slowly. I don't know how something like that slips past the FDA. I also didn't realize that generic companies have to reverse engineer drugs like hackers. I guess I assumed that the whole process would be made open source whenever the patent expires, because hacking together a cheap drug seems a little bit reckless. (I also just realized that this article could have been commissioned by someone in the pharmaceutical industry, since it's sort of encouraging people to buy more expensive drugs. But I don't think so, it looks like the author has a very good reputation and track record: http://katherineeban.com/about/biography/ http://katherineeban.com/about/biography/)
      - explorigin 10y ago
        The thing I mentioned is a pill...not water (not even homeopathic water). Swallowing could account for a minutes-long change but I doubt hours long as I was seeing. Your criticism is not too harsh, it's just a strawman.
- x2398dh1 10y ago
  > blatantly misrepresents the contents of the article vs. > ‘not accepted by most modern medical experts’ and that ‘there is no scientific evidence the product works’ In other words, "doesn't work." If there is no evidence of something working, an acceptable shorthand translation for this in the english language is, "it ain't gonna work."
  - IgorPartola 10y ago
    You are losing subtle but important meaning. First most != all. Second, some still think that ancient is better than modern. Third, science to some is a belief system, not an absolute. These are all fallacies, but to a person convinced that some herb will cure their gout or arthritis it reads very differently than "doesn't work". It reads as "hasn't proven to work yet." And this is the crux of the problem. The scientific community cannot just discount something because it hasn't yet been found to work. It is possible, though extremely unlikely, that some herb can be concentrated just right to cure whatever, so we can't say "it never did and it never will work". And the person who is already mistrustful of be scientific process and community will see that as evidence that it might. Obviously, I am not in favor of perpetuating myths, but strictly speaking it is more neuanced than what you said.
grzm 10y ago
Lengthy discussion from 4 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13007235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13007235 "Homeopathy 'treatments' must be labelled to say they do not work, US government orders"
Ftuuky 10y ago
Meanwhile, in Portugal the homeophaty community et al wants the same fiscal perks as real medical doctors and pharmacists...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- 4ad 10y ago
  In Austria homeopathic crap is bundled together with real medicine, and if you're not versed in the names of Austrian medicine, the pharmacist might very well be recommending and selling you homeopathic remedies. It's a disgrace. They even do shit like: Patient: "I'd like some paracetamol please." Pharmacist: "Do you have a cold?" Patient: "Yes." Pharmacist: "Here, try this X instead, it's the best." If you don't happen to know that X is homeopathic they will literally just sell you water.
nonbel 10y ago
Do they actually test these concoctions to make sure no active ingredient remains, or just assume it?
ams6110 10y ago
I'm sure this will make zero difference to most buyers. They already are seeking out alternatives and mistrustful of conventional medicine, a government warning label will just be more evidence of a "pharma/industrial/govt" conspiracy.
nathan_f77 10y ago
Now they just need put a disclaimer at the top of all of Donald Trump's environmental policies, stating that climate change is real.

51 points by triplesec 10y ago

This headline blatantly misrepresents the contents of the article. The products are required to state that there is no scientific evidence that the products work. Even that is not entirely true. There is plenty of evidence that placebo and "nocebo" effects are powerful, real aspects of the healing process. Homeopathy engages this shamelessly. http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/01/the-placebo-phenomenon http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/01/the-placebo-phenomenon

deutronium 10y ago
Don't homeopathic medicines claim they work via water memory though, which has been debunked. If you wanted to make use of the placebo effect from what I recall syringes have a more powerful effect than pills etc.
- explorigin 10y ago
  Some do, others are based on other principles (Eastern medicine body energy etc.). We have homeopathic "cold pills" available at our local (mainstream) drugstore that visibly reduces a runny nose in our toddler when he has a cold. I've never _not_ seen these specific pills work in this way on small children. Does it defy conventional science? Sure. Do other homeopathic remedies work this well? No. Will I stop recommending them? Not to people with the brains to make a objective judgement about them. (Confirmation bias is the best friend of the placebo effect.) You just have to try different ones to find what works and what doesn't. Body chemistry is more complicated than big pharma would have us to believe ("ask your doctor if * is right for you").
  - nathan_f77 10y ago
    > We have homeopathic "cold pills" available at our local (mainstream) drugstore that visibly reduces a runny nose It could be something simple like the act of swallowing that briefly clears up the runny nose. Next time you could just try a glass of water and see if that has the same effect. > I've never _not_ seen these specific pills work in this way on small children. I think it really could just be the action of swallowing. It could be the placebo effect. Or it could just be the running nose clearing up by itself. Next time you should try some NyQuil Cold & Flu. It's very safe, and it contains a nasal decongestant (phenylephrine). Homeopathic medicine doesn't contain any medicine, by definition. And even if they did contain some medicine, the active ingredient is supposed to be bad for you! It just makes no sense. > You just have to try different ones to find what works and what doesn't. It's good when you find one that works, because then you can use any of them. > Body chemistry is more complicated than big pharma would have us to believe Homeopathy chemistry is quite simple, though (H2O). I'm sorry if that's too harsh. I should mention that I've actually learned some new things about medicine recently. I always thought that generic drugs were identical to brand-name drugs, and that buying drugs from the original manufacturer was always a waste of money. That belief quickly disappeared after reading this article: http://fortune.com/2013/01/10/are-generics-really-the-same-as-branded-drugs/ http://fortune.com/2013/01/10/are-generics-really-the-same-a... It's easy to see how a poorly imitated time-release mechanisms can lead to problems when the drug is released too quickly or too slowly. I don't know how something like that slips past the FDA. I also didn't realize that generic companies have to reverse engineer drugs like hackers. I guess I assumed that the whole process would be made open source whenever the patent expires, because hacking together a cheap drug seems a little bit reckless. (I also just realized that this article could have been commissioned by someone in the pharmaceutical industry, since it's sort of encouraging people to buy more expensive drugs. But I don't think so, it looks like the author has a very good reputation and track record: http://katherineeban.com/about/biography/ http://katherineeban.com/about/biography/)
    - explorigin 10y ago
      The thing I mentioned is a pill...not water (not even homeopathic water). Swallowing could account for a minutes-long change but I doubt hours long as I was seeing. Your criticism is not too harsh, it's just a strawman.
x2398dh1 10y ago
> blatantly misrepresents the contents of the article vs. > ‘not accepted by most modern medical experts’ and that ‘there is no scientific evidence the product works’ In other words, "doesn't work." If there is no evidence of something working, an acceptable shorthand translation for this in the english language is, "it ain't gonna work."
- IgorPartola 10y ago
  You are losing subtle but important meaning. First most != all. Second, some still think that ancient is better than modern. Third, science to some is a belief system, not an absolute. These are all fallacies, but to a person convinced that some herb will cure their gout or arthritis it reads very differently than "doesn't work". It reads as "hasn't proven to work yet." And this is the crux of the problem. The scientific community cannot just discount something because it hasn't yet been found to work. It is possible, though extremely unlikely, that some herb can be concentrated just right to cure whatever, so we can't say "it never did and it never will work". And the person who is already mistrustful of be scientific process and community will see that as evidence that it might. Obviously, I am not in favor of perpetuating myths, but strictly speaking it is more neuanced than what you said.

grzm 10y ago

Lengthy discussion from 4 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13007235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13007235 "Homeopathy 'treatments' must be labelled to say they do not work, US government orders"

Ftuuky 10y ago

Meanwhile, in Portugal the homeophaty community et al wants the same fiscal perks as real medical doctors and pharmacists...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
4ad 10y ago
In Austria homeopathic crap is bundled together with real medicine, and if you're not versed in the names of Austrian medicine, the pharmacist might very well be recommending and selling you homeopathic remedies. It's a disgrace. They even do shit like: Patient: "I'd like some paracetamol please." Pharmacist: "Do you have a cold?" Patient: "Yes." Pharmacist: "Here, try this X instead, it's the best." If you don't happen to know that X is homeopathic they will literally just sell you water.

nonbel 10y ago

Do they actually test these concoctions to make sure no active ingredient remains, or just assume it?

ams6110 10y ago

I'm sure this will make zero difference to most buyers. They already are seeking out alternatives and mistrustful of conventional medicine, a government warning label will just be more evidence of a "pharma/industrial/govt" conspiracy.

nathan_f77 10y ago

Now they just need put a disclaimer at the top of all of Donald Trump's environmental policies, stating that climate change is real.