4 ms·

This already exists. My parents own a bar and were pitched a technology that would instantly screen problem patrons from a cloud-based data store. Further it ca

by nibs 10y ago

This already exists. My parents own a bar and were pitched a technology that would instantly screen problem patrons from a cloud-based data store. Further it can "remember" problem patrons if you flag them on your internal cameras and then use that to prevent them from entering in the future. It currently has many customers in the US.

shostack 10y ago
Whats this called? Are there any checks and balances against it? Like, would someone ever know they were in this system or have recourse to see their data and challenge it? I could totally picture insurance companies being all over something like this, and it is really scary to think about the lack of transparency and how you'll never know if you are in one of those databases.
- nibs 10y ago
  PatronScan[1], no, no. https://www.patronscan.com/id-scanner-for-bars/ https://www.patronscan.com/id-scanner-for-bars/
  - Diederich 10y ago
    Holy crap that's creepy as hell. From a technology perspective, there might be some clever stuff there, but probably not. It's just a sign of things to come I think.
  - deathanatos 10y ago
    > The age of the patron is displayed for every scan, and the ID scanner operator can be alerted if the patron exceeds the minimum or maximum age set by management. The maximum age. > If patrons break the rules, then ban them from every venue using PatronScan in North America. > The Banned Patrons List is shared with every other venue using PatronScan > PatronScan ID scanners give you live stats about […], the gender distribution, and the average age [of patrons]. Wow. Just … wow.
    - shostack 10y ago
      I wonder what the legality is about barring someone from an establishment based on a maximum age like that.
    - morgante 10y ago
      What exactly is so disturbing about a company digitizing what bouncers have been doing for decades?
      - mattnewton 10y ago
        Bouncers don't typically work for multiple clubs, you can't hack into their brains, they have imperfect memory, etc This is like asking, what's wrong with state owned security cameras on the streets? It's digitizing what bystanders have been doing for centuries.
        morgante 10y ago
        Well, I don't see any problem with state owned security cameras.
        type0 10y ago
        > state owned security cameras There is a difference between security cameras and surveillance cameras. Surveillance cams are broadcasted somewhere else (maybe even over internet) and stored and reviewed. Security cameras - are for security incidents and shouldn't be broadcasted or footage stored longer than necessary (matter of hours or days depending on location). Too bad often times these state owned security cameras are actually surveillance cams disguised as innocuous things which they aren't. There is this Will Smith movie "Enemy of the State", it's fiction but our dystopic society is becoming ever more scary.
      - deathanatos 10y ago
        I'm not sure what the bouncers are doing is right, either, though for some reason I'm more comfortable with it. (Which I find to be a really bad answer, frankly: is this just pushing my "comfort" of what I'm willing to put up with too far?)
  - eth0up 10y ago
    That link would possibly make a worthy HN submission. I'd upvote it. I perused a bit for a reference to facial-recognition but found nothing. It would integrate frightfully well. I often irritate clerks when attempting to purchase alcohol, I refuse to allow them to scan my driver-license. One such row at a 711 lead me to contact corporate HQ, where they assured me their policy was on my side and that per request, the clerk was obligated to do the math and apply a visual analysis of the ID. This is something I do on principle and in consideration of possible data abuse - not to be a prick. But most clerks become quite indignant, even when I try to politely explain that until I read a company policy expressly stating that my data isn't logged or used for any other purposes beyond validating my age, I prefer to not take the risk. "Get out!" she said to me, and some other things too. Also, it seems https://www.servallbiometrics.com/ https://www.servallbiometrics.com/ is the parent of PatronScan.
    - nibs 10y ago
      Submitted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13060655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13060655
SmokyBorbon 10y ago
I guarantee you they are selling the data to private investigators to track down targets. Happens with mall security too. The NSA doesn't need to track everyone. They just need access to the private detabases.
mlok 10y ago
In France, the law "Informatique et Liberte" from the 6th of January 1978 allows anyone to access datas stored about them and have them corrected or removed from any database. https://www.cnil.fr/en/rights-and-obligations https://www.cnil.fr/en/rights-and-obligations
- Thimothy 10y ago
  Every western European country has one of those nowadays. Though I never heard about anyone trying to exercise that kind of right, and I wonder if there is any way to verify that your data has actually been removed, or just a NO_SEND_MAIL flag has been set.

by nibs 10y ago

shostack 10y ago

Whats this called? Are there any checks and balances against it? Like, would someone ever know they were in this system or have recourse to see their data and challenge it? I could totally picture insurance companies being all over something like this, and it is really scary to think about the lack of transparency and how you'll never know if you are in one of those databases.

nibs 10y ago
PatronScan[1], no, no. https://www.patronscan.com/id-scanner-for-bars/ https://www.patronscan.com/id-scanner-for-bars/
- Diederich 10y ago
  Holy crap that's creepy as hell. From a technology perspective, there might be some clever stuff there, but probably not. It's just a sign of things to come I think.
- deathanatos 10y ago
  > The age of the patron is displayed for every scan, and the ID scanner operator can be alerted if the patron exceeds the minimum or maximum age set by management. The maximum age. > If patrons break the rules, then ban them from every venue using PatronScan in North America. > The Banned Patrons List is shared with every other venue using PatronScan > PatronScan ID scanners give you live stats about […], the gender distribution, and the average age [of patrons]. Wow. Just … wow.
  - shostack 10y ago
    I wonder what the legality is about barring someone from an establishment based on a maximum age like that.
  - morgante 10y ago
    What exactly is so disturbing about a company digitizing what bouncers have been doing for decades?
    - mattnewton 10y ago
      Bouncers don't typically work for multiple clubs, you can't hack into their brains, they have imperfect memory, etc This is like asking, what's wrong with state owned security cameras on the streets? It's digitizing what bystanders have been doing for centuries.
      - morgante 10y ago
        Well, I don't see any problem with state owned security cameras.
        type0 10y ago
        > state owned security cameras There is a difference between security cameras and surveillance cameras. Surveillance cams are broadcasted somewhere else (maybe even over internet) and stored and reviewed. Security cameras - are for security incidents and shouldn't be broadcasted or footage stored longer than necessary (matter of hours or days depending on location). Too bad often times these state owned security cameras are actually surveillance cams disguised as innocuous things which they aren't. There is this Will Smith movie "Enemy of the State", it's fiction but our dystopic society is becoming ever more scary.
    - deathanatos 10y ago
      I'm not sure what the bouncers are doing is right, either, though for some reason I'm more comfortable with it. (Which I find to be a really bad answer, frankly: is this just pushing my "comfort" of what I'm willing to put up with too far?)
- eth0up 10y ago
  That link would possibly make a worthy HN submission. I'd upvote it. I perused a bit for a reference to facial-recognition but found nothing. It would integrate frightfully well. I often irritate clerks when attempting to purchase alcohol, I refuse to allow them to scan my driver-license. One such row at a 711 lead me to contact corporate HQ, where they assured me their policy was on my side and that per request, the clerk was obligated to do the math and apply a visual analysis of the ID. This is something I do on principle and in consideration of possible data abuse - not to be a prick. But most clerks become quite indignant, even when I try to politely explain that until I read a company policy expressly stating that my data isn't logged or used for any other purposes beyond validating my age, I prefer to not take the risk. "Get out!" she said to me, and some other things too. Also, it seems https://www.servallbiometrics.com/ https://www.servallbiometrics.com/ is the parent of PatronScan.
  - nibs 10y ago
    Submitted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13060655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13060655

SmokyBorbon 10y ago

I guarantee you they are selling the data to private investigators to track down targets. Happens with mall security too. The NSA doesn't need to track everyone. They just need access to the private detabases.

mlok 10y ago

In France, the law "Informatique et Liberte" from the 6th of January 1978 allows anyone to access datas stored about them and have them corrected or removed from any database. https://www.cnil.fr/en/rights-and-obligations https://www.cnil.fr/en/rights-and-obligations

Thimothy 10y ago
Every western European country has one of those nowadays. Though I never heard about anyone trying to exercise that kind of right, and I wonder if there is any way to verify that your data has actually been removed, or just a NO_SEND_MAIL flag has been set.