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> Imagine that $15 million dollar invested in $50k USD increments into 300 startup ideas, the jobs that will be created... That sounds pretty naive. $15 milli

> Imagine that $15 million dollar invested in $50k USD increments into 300 startup ideas, the jobs that will be created... That sounds pretty naive. $15 million isn't a huge amount of money in business, and in most parts of the country $50k isn't a livable salary. I'm sure people can scrape by on that, but don't pretend it'd be doing them a huge favor. The more I think about it, the more exploitive it seems. Great for tricking recent college grads into wasting a few years to build a website, but not so great for actually developing new technology.

CPLX 10y ago
> That sounds pretty naive. $15 million isn't a huge amount of money in business, and in most parts of the country $50k isn't a livable salary. Who's being naive? The median net compensation last year in the U.S. was $29,930.13, meaning half of all wage earners earned less. Median income for an entire household (ie more than one person) in the US is about $51k. Meaning about half of all households make less than that. Assuming half the population of the country doesn't die suddenly in the next three weeks it's fair to say that $50k is "livable"
- chillacy 10y ago
  It also depends where you live: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/80000-median-wage-income-gain-in-seattle-far-outpaces-other-cities/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/80000-median-w... Consider that YC will throw you 200k but you're going to be moving to an area where the median income is $90k This of course wouldn't be an issue if people didn't insist on living in the bay area, but nobody takes you as seriously if you're remote.
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    > It also depends where you live Sure, but that doesn't change the actual...you know... averages the parent cited. For every household with over $51k, there was a household with under $51k. Pointing out that some corner of the US is expensive hardly changes the point.
    - chillacy 10y ago
      I'm not debating the definition of the median... I assume everyone knows how percentiles work. I'm debating the idea that its meaningful to use the median income of the entire united states as a comparison. Prices in San Jose aren't brought down by prices being lower elsewhere because location is basically the most important dimension in real estate. The median house being 188k in america means nothing when all the houses you can choose from cost over 1mil. And you're stuck there because the bay area has a near monopoly on startups, especially if you receive funding from a bay area accelerator. Let me take the parent's comment to the next level: "The median net compensation last year in the world was around $1,200, meaning half of all wage earners earned less. Assuming half the population of the planet doesn't die suddenly in the next three weeks it's fair to say that $50k is "livable"" Equally inapplicable to someone who lives in the bay area.
      - paulddraper 10y ago
        Okay, have fun being an edge case I guess.
        chillacy 10y ago
        I don't live in San Jose but my city's on its way there so thanks ;) We're all edge cases in the world as a whole.
- jlarocco 10y ago
  Quite a few people are nitpicking the "$50k isn't a livable wage" comment, but nobody's really challenged the underlying point that $50k isn't a lot of money if it's the only money available to start a company with. Even if a person does live in part of the country where $50k is a decent salary, it still doesn't leave them much left over to start a company. And living away from urban areas will bring its own challenges, like networking, marketing, advertising, etc. Just an example, how do you think Uber would have turned out if they started in Pierre, South Dakota? And good luck buying any kind of machinery, expanding beyond a lone developer, etc. with only $50k.
SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
The median household income is about 50k/yr in the US, so "livable" or not, it's being lived on by (more than) half the population. Plenty of people would jump at being paid $35k for a year plus have $15k in tooling + materials. Lots of craftsmen would be able to establish a new business with that level of funding. I think you have unrealistic beliefs about how things work.
- jlarocco 10y ago
  > I think you have unrealistic beliefs about how things work. Do I? What percentage of VC money goes to people living in areas where $50k would be a good year's salary? It's practically 0. YCombinator won't even invest in companies that won't move to the valley. http://www.ycombinator.com/faq/#q21 http://www.ycombinator.com/faq/#q21
  - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
    A small but not trivial amount of VC capital, but that's not what people are responding to. For somewhere like Seattle or Las Vegas, 50k/year is a reasonable seed round salary. However, most people are just commenting that you're wrong about 50k/year not being livable for most of the country. Almost everywhere, including places like Seattle, 50k/year is what half the households make, so works for an individual salary. It's the vast minority where 50k/year isnt livable for a single person. Of course, that's also partly what people are calling out elsewhere in the thread: high VC spending close to them is about social connections rather than what makes economic sense. I expect that if you had the capital, you could eat most VC's lunch by just spending everywhere but those hyper expensive areas.
  - tylerlh 10y ago
    Founders need to live in the Bay Area during the 3-month period in which they're participating in the YC batch, but I believe companies are free to move to wherever they'd like once that period is over. I can think of a couple that were based in Chattanooga (median income ~36k) and moved back there after YC.

CPLX 10y ago

> That sounds pretty naive. $15 million isn't a huge amount of money in business, and in most parts of the country $50k isn't a livable salary. Who's being naive? The median net compensation last year in the U.S. was $29,930.13, meaning half of all wage earners earned less. Median income for an entire household (ie more than one person) in the US is about $51k. Meaning about half of all households make less than that. Assuming half the population of the country doesn't die suddenly in the next three weeks it's fair to say that $50k is "livable"

chillacy 10y ago
It also depends where you live: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/80000-median-wage-income-gain-in-seattle-far-outpaces-other-cities/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/80000-median-w... Consider that YC will throw you 200k but you're going to be moving to an area where the median income is $90k This of course wouldn't be an issue if people didn't insist on living in the bay area, but nobody takes you as seriously if you're remote.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  > It also depends where you live Sure, but that doesn't change the actual...you know... averages the parent cited. For every household with over $51k, there was a household with under $51k. Pointing out that some corner of the US is expensive hardly changes the point.
  - chillacy 10y ago
    I'm not debating the definition of the median... I assume everyone knows how percentiles work. I'm debating the idea that its meaningful to use the median income of the entire united states as a comparison. Prices in San Jose aren't brought down by prices being lower elsewhere because location is basically the most important dimension in real estate. The median house being 188k in america means nothing when all the houses you can choose from cost over 1mil. And you're stuck there because the bay area has a near monopoly on startups, especially if you receive funding from a bay area accelerator. Let me take the parent's comment to the next level: "The median net compensation last year in the world was around $1,200, meaning half of all wage earners earned less. Assuming half the population of the planet doesn't die suddenly in the next three weeks it's fair to say that $50k is "livable"" Equally inapplicable to someone who lives in the bay area.
    - paulddraper 10y ago
      Okay, have fun being an edge case I guess.
      - chillacy 10y ago
        I don't live in San Jose but my city's on its way there so thanks ;) We're all edge cases in the world as a whole.
jlarocco 10y ago
Quite a few people are nitpicking the "$50k isn't a livable wage" comment, but nobody's really challenged the underlying point that $50k isn't a lot of money if it's the only money available to start a company with. Even if a person does live in part of the country where $50k is a decent salary, it still doesn't leave them much left over to start a company. And living away from urban areas will bring its own challenges, like networking, marketing, advertising, etc. Just an example, how do you think Uber would have turned out if they started in Pierre, South Dakota? And good luck buying any kind of machinery, expanding beyond a lone developer, etc. with only $50k.

SomeStupidPoint 10y ago

The median household income is about 50k/yr in the US, so "livable" or not, it's being lived on by (more than) half the population. Plenty of people would jump at being paid $35k for a year plus have $15k in tooling + materials. Lots of craftsmen would be able to establish a new business with that level of funding. I think you have unrealistic beliefs about how things work.

jlarocco 10y ago
> I think you have unrealistic beliefs about how things work. Do I? What percentage of VC money goes to people living in areas where $50k would be a good year's salary? It's practically 0. YCombinator won't even invest in companies that won't move to the valley. http://www.ycombinator.com/faq/#q21 http://www.ycombinator.com/faq/#q21
- SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
  A small but not trivial amount of VC capital, but that's not what people are responding to. For somewhere like Seattle or Las Vegas, 50k/year is a reasonable seed round salary. However, most people are just commenting that you're wrong about 50k/year not being livable for most of the country. Almost everywhere, including places like Seattle, 50k/year is what half the households make, so works for an individual salary. It's the vast minority where 50k/year isnt livable for a single person. Of course, that's also partly what people are calling out elsewhere in the thread: high VC spending close to them is about social connections rather than what makes economic sense. I expect that if you had the capital, you could eat most VC's lunch by just spending everywhere but those hyper expensive areas.
- tylerlh 10y ago
  Founders need to live in the Bay Area during the 3-month period in which they're participating in the YC batch, but I believe companies are free to move to wherever they'd like once that period is over. I can think of a couple that were based in Chattanooga (median income ~36k) and moved back there after YC.