5 ms·

Credit score is based on financial and measurable context. Giving people brownie points for "being nice" or "not shitting in the streets" seems like a differen

Credit score is based on financial and measurable context. Giving people brownie points for "being nice" or "not shitting in the streets" seems like a different ball game.

gph 10y ago
Not to mention it's mostly been recently that people/companies have started using Credit Scores outside the context of applying for a loan. And IMO they should stop using it outside that context. People shouldn't have to worry about whether they can find a job or apartment based on having poor credit. Turns it into a game that everyone is forced to play instead of a simple metric that financial institutions can use to determine your credit-worthiness. I've never had bad credit, but when I started working office jobs I actually went out and got a credit card I didn't need just so I could use it a few times and pay it off in full at the end of each month. Completely worthless process that I had to involve myself in simply to build my credit up. What a joke.
- headcanon 10y ago
  Credit score for an apartment seems reasonable, though - you're paying a non-trivial amount of money per month, and apartments want to minimize evictions - they just want to know if you can pay. I've been in a situation where my credit score was bad, but I provided an offer letter for my new job (which indicated that my future situation won't be like my past) and it was fine. Where I can see it failing is for people who live "outside" the system - I have a friend who refuses to uses banks and deals only in cash and ancient coins - he can't find an above-the-board place to live because of his lack of credit score. But with that said, he does have a high risk of not being able to make rent on time, so its difficult to say what the policy should be. As for finding a job, I don't know of any instance where a poor credit score would prevent you from getting a job, other than getting a security clearance, but that also seems reasonable since the government wants to know if you have any blackmail-able "money troubles" that an enemy actor can take advantage of.
  - gph 10y ago
    Yea, no one takes it too seriously for employment (which makes me wonder why they even do it most the time). I doubt I would have lost out on any jobs if I had bad credit, it probably wasn't really necessary for me to build up my credit (other than being good for getting car/home loans now). But your second point is largely what I was getting at. People who don't want that to be a part of their life are starting to run into barriers to leading a normal life. At this point credit scores are used rather casually and don't have that high of consequences. But the trend is in the wrong direction, and I'm firmly against it continuing in the same way as the Chinese are bringing it.
    - lettergram 10y ago
      If you had bad credit and a large amount of debt no bank or federal positions that deal with finances or money would be open for you.
  - weerd 10y ago
    The problem I've had is that there is effectively no difference between bad credit and no credit. It is entirely possible to be a financially responsible person (who exists in the "system" with a bank account) and still be denied housing. This forces people to get credit cards.
    - avn2109 10y ago
      >> "This forces people to get credit cards." That's the point. They designed the system of incentives and constraints to make you their customer.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - morgante 10y ago
    > I have a friend who refuses to uses banks and deals only in cash and ancient coins I don't need a credit score to tell me I probably don't want this person as a tenant. They're a huge eviction risk (no system = no fallback for short-term cashflow issues), not to mention that I don't want to be dealing with hundreds of dollars in cash rent.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  I think hiring someone and leasing an apartment to someone are two different things; leasing an apartment to someone is taking on a financial risk in that you have to judge whether they can pay you or not on a monthly basis, not too different from a loan.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    People with bad credit scores tend to be irresponsible in general, have unstable personal lives and are generally less reliable. They might not be someone you want as an employee especially if the position requires any significant training. As an employer I would view it as a red flag, not disqualifiying but it would take some other evidence and good references to offset it.
    - pavel_lishin 10y ago
      > People with bad credit scores tend to be irresponsible in general I'm gonna be that guy: [citation needed]
- superuser2 10y ago
  An apartment lease is functionally the same thing as a loan: you need to pay $x every month. The landlord has a legitimate interest in how likely you are to do so.
- imagetcha 10y ago
  I 100% agree. I'm sorry, but my credit worthiness has nothing to do with my ability to perform a job, or how well I can drive my car. Auto insurance also uses credit. Again I sat, Irrelevant uses...
baka 10y ago
Well, correct my if I'm wrong, but in some states the US you can also get a criminal record from public intoxication or urination and in the later case be required to register as a sex offender?
- gph 10y ago
  You're correct, but I don't see how that has any relevance?
  - serge2k 10y ago
    SEE THE US IS BAD TOO. Seems to come up a lot when reminders of China being ruled by a totalitarian regime come along
    - vacri 10y ago
      The US does have a track record of being blase about its officers of the peace killing people in the streets, for example. The US has fantastic freedom of speech and expression, but it also sends SWAT teams into peoples' houses and cheers the purchase of tanks for its police departments. Similarly, police can legally just take your money if they feel like it. Yes, the US is not as bad as China as a place to live (look at the migration flow between them for simple proof), but it's worth noting that the same way people explain away the US's flaws can be done in other countries as well.
      - frugalmail 10y ago
        I believe you're unfairly characterizing the US being "blase about its officers of the peace killing people in the streets" there were approximately 990 people killed by police in 2015 and 2016. In a country of 325M with the focus on highly dense urban areas. In a particular segment that constitutes less than a quarter of those deaths there has been heavy rioting and police officers hunted and murdered as a result.
        10y ago

Credit score is based on financial and measurable context. Giving people brownie points for "being nice" or "not shitting in the streets" seems like a different ball game.

gph 10y ago

Not to mention it's mostly been recently that people/companies have started using Credit Scores outside the context of applying for a loan. And IMO they should stop using it outside that context. People shouldn't have to worry about whether they can find a job or apartment based on having poor credit. Turns it into a game that everyone is forced to play instead of a simple metric that financial institutions can use to determine your credit-worthiness. I've never had bad credit, but when I started working office jobs I actually went out and got a credit card I didn't need just so I could use it a few times and pay it off in full at the end of each month. Completely worthless process that I had to involve myself in simply to build my credit up. What a joke.

headcanon 10y ago
Credit score for an apartment seems reasonable, though - you're paying a non-trivial amount of money per month, and apartments want to minimize evictions - they just want to know if you can pay. I've been in a situation where my credit score was bad, but I provided an offer letter for my new job (which indicated that my future situation won't be like my past) and it was fine. Where I can see it failing is for people who live "outside" the system - I have a friend who refuses to uses banks and deals only in cash and ancient coins - he can't find an above-the-board place to live because of his lack of credit score. But with that said, he does have a high risk of not being able to make rent on time, so its difficult to say what the policy should be. As for finding a job, I don't know of any instance where a poor credit score would prevent you from getting a job, other than getting a security clearance, but that also seems reasonable since the government wants to know if you have any blackmail-able "money troubles" that an enemy actor can take advantage of.
- gph 10y ago
  Yea, no one takes it too seriously for employment (which makes me wonder why they even do it most the time). I doubt I would have lost out on any jobs if I had bad credit, it probably wasn't really necessary for me to build up my credit (other than being good for getting car/home loans now). But your second point is largely what I was getting at. People who don't want that to be a part of their life are starting to run into barriers to leading a normal life. At this point credit scores are used rather casually and don't have that high of consequences. But the trend is in the wrong direction, and I'm firmly against it continuing in the same way as the Chinese are bringing it.
  - lettergram 10y ago
    If you had bad credit and a large amount of debt no bank or federal positions that deal with finances or money would be open for you.
- weerd 10y ago
  The problem I've had is that there is effectively no difference between bad credit and no credit. It is entirely possible to be a financially responsible person (who exists in the "system" with a bank account) and still be denied housing. This forces people to get credit cards.
  - avn2109 10y ago
    >> "This forces people to get credit cards." That's the point. They designed the system of incentives and constraints to make you their customer.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- morgante 10y ago
  > I have a friend who refuses to uses banks and deals only in cash and ancient coins I don't need a credit score to tell me I probably don't want this person as a tenant. They're a huge eviction risk (no system = no fallback for short-term cashflow issues), not to mention that I don't want to be dealing with hundreds of dollars in cash rent.
pavel_lishin 10y ago
I think hiring someone and leasing an apartment to someone are two different things; leasing an apartment to someone is taking on a financial risk in that you have to judge whether they can pay you or not on a monthly basis, not too different from a loan.
- ams6110 10y ago
  People with bad credit scores tend to be irresponsible in general, have unstable personal lives and are generally less reliable. They might not be someone you want as an employee especially if the position requires any significant training. As an employer I would view it as a red flag, not disqualifiying but it would take some other evidence and good references to offset it.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    > People with bad credit scores tend to be irresponsible in general I'm gonna be that guy: [citation needed]
superuser2 10y ago
An apartment lease is functionally the same thing as a loan: you need to pay $x every month. The landlord has a legitimate interest in how likely you are to do so.
imagetcha 10y ago
I 100% agree. I'm sorry, but my credit worthiness has nothing to do with my ability to perform a job, or how well I can drive my car. Auto insurance also uses credit. Again I sat, Irrelevant uses...

baka 10y ago

Well, correct my if I'm wrong, but in some states the US you can also get a criminal record from public intoxication or urination and in the later case be required to register as a sex offender?

gph 10y ago
You're correct, but I don't see how that has any relevance?
- serge2k 10y ago
  SEE THE US IS BAD TOO. Seems to come up a lot when reminders of China being ruled by a totalitarian regime come along
  - vacri 10y ago
    The US does have a track record of being blase about its officers of the peace killing people in the streets, for example. The US has fantastic freedom of speech and expression, but it also sends SWAT teams into peoples' houses and cheers the purchase of tanks for its police departments. Similarly, police can legally just take your money if they feel like it. Yes, the US is not as bad as China as a place to live (look at the migration flow between them for simple proof), but it's worth noting that the same way people explain away the US's flaws can be done in other countries as well.
    - frugalmail 10y ago
      I believe you're unfairly characterizing the US being "blase about its officers of the peace killing people in the streets" there were approximately 990 people killed by police in 2015 and 2016. In a country of 325M with the focus on highly dense urban areas. In a particular segment that constitutes less than a quarter of those deaths there has been heavy rioting and police officers hunted and murdered as a result.
      - 10y ago