4 ms·

Amazon’s “Two-Day Shipping” Is No Longer Two-Day Shipping

43 points by HoyaSaxa 10y ago

tcfunk 10y ago
If you accept the fact that 2 day shipping doesn't necessarily mean 2 days given the proper circumstances, the same should apply to 1 day shipping. And probably in an inconsistent manner.
Nadya 10y ago
Their help page, unless recently modified, explains why this is. I agree it is a 'dark pattern' however. >If the item you're ordering is out of stock or unavailable to ship immediately, the shipping method time starts when the item ships. For example, it will take two business days after an item ships to reach you with Two-Day Shipping. Simply put - the item does not ship immediately. If you read the 'Guaranteed delivery date' message it gives you an "If you order in the next x hours and y minutes". That is when the shipment is expected to be made. Why are the boots 4 day shipping? Because the next guaranteed delivery time is in 61 hours (>48 hours, so 2 days to ship then 2 days to deliver = 4 day delivery). If it was "in the next 73 hours" it would be a 5 day delivery. The exploding kittens is 3 days because the order is within the next 24 hours. I wager if they waited 17 minutes one of two things would happen: it would estimate 2 day shipping or the date would be pushed back an additional 24 hours (never falling under 24 hours). I imagine this is because the companies selling these items can only guarantee shipment within 24/48/72 hours of receiving an order. If they set this to 72 then "2 day shipping" is really 4-5 days. My personal experience, nearly all of my 2 day shipping comes within 2 days, even when the guaranteed date is 3-4 days out. Items with 12-15 business day shipping often arrive in just a few days. I'm a bit forgiving when my 2 day shipment comes in 3 days when my 2 week shipments frequently come in 3-5 days...
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  Right, but this also happens when it says "Only xx left in stock, order now!" And also direct from / Fulfilled by Amazon.
  - Nadya 10y ago
    Amazon is not immune from only being able to guarantee shipment within 24-72 hours of receiving an order. The "Only XX in stock" message may trump the "x hours and y minutes" message but that doesn't change how the math is being done - it just makes it invisible to the end user. It is two day shipping. Starting from the time it ships which they calculate using the guaranteed delivery date. Often the delivery date is "sooner" rather than "later" but they're only going to guarantee the "later" date and not the "sooner" date for obvious business reasons. While it is technically correct it isn't how people talk about shipping. Overnight means overnight to people - not overnight after I decide to ship it 3 weeks late. Which is why I agree it is a dark pattern. I imagine "Quick shipping" (no promise of X-day) doesn't market nearly as well. E: I'd like to make it clear I'm not meaning to defending the practice... only explain it. It seems very logical to me - even if confusing and unfriendly to many users who expect "2 day shipping" to mean "arrives in 2 days".
    - FireBeyond 10y ago
      Further on the dark patterns, here's an order I'm looking at now: "Guaranteed delivery date: Dec 2, 2016 if you order in the next 9 hours and 27 minutes" With this it has "2 business days FREE Two-Day Shipping" selected. As of now, there are four business days (inclusive of delivery date, but not of today- the window listed above). What makes it worse: "One day shipping, Wed Nov. 30" So "one day shipping will be Wed Nov 30, but two day shipping will be Fri Dec 2"? Note that now they don't even mention "get it by" for anything other than one-day. I get the following: - Wednesday Nov 30 - $11.97 - One-Day Shipping - 2 business days - FREE Two-Day Shipping - 6 business days - FREE Two-Day Shipping - 7 business days - FREE No-Rush Shipping Get a $5 credit for Prime Pantry. No idea why anyone would choose 6 day delivery given the choice between 2 day and 7 day (plus credit).
      - Nadya 10y ago
        Well there goes my assumption on the maths. :) Thanks for the additional example. 9 hours = ships tomorrow. So 1 day shipping from tomorrow = Wednesday. But using my assumption above - the two day shipping would be Thursday, not Friday.
- hga 10y ago
  Another possibility is that 1 and 2 day shipping gets you put in different queues for available stock; if they don't have enough Exploding Kittens (?!?!?!!!) on hand right now to fulfill all 1 and 2 day orders, they're obviously going to prioritize the people who's revealed preference through hard, cold cash, is for "1 day" delivery.
- HoyaSaxa 10y ago
  Yes agreed, but the real question is why can they guarantee that your item will ship sooner if you select one-day shipping. They can conveniently get your item on the truck much more quickly (1 vs 3 days) if you are willing to pay extra for one-day shipping. For example for the boots: One-Day Shipping -> 1 day of processing + 1 day of shipping = 2 day turnaround Two-Day Shipping -> 3 days of processing + 2 days of shipping = 5 day turnaround
  - developer2 10y ago
    Because when paying for 1-day shipping, the cost is astronomical. It would be unacceptable to pay that price and not have it next business day. If they couldn't actually do real one-day shipping, then they would not be able to offer it. It exists only because we have to pay a large fee on every individual delivery. You pay the high cost for a guaranteed service. Amazon Prime simply cannot scale at the given price point. People who place >= 100 orders a year are paying <= $1 per shipment. The $100/year Prime subscription is not sustainable if people use it. I'm sure they claw back a significant profit from people who buy Prime and then only order 10-20 times a year, but it's possible it doesn't earn back what excessive users are costing them. Is it a little shady that they offer 2-day shipping with caveats? Yes. They should either make it much more clear that there are no guarantees, or increase the cost of heavy Prime users to be profitable enough to scale it properly.
mikestew 10y ago
Whatever explanations might be bandied about both here and on Amazon's explanatory pages, no explanation will be sufficient to explain away my personal experience: used to be that when Amazon said "two day shipping", it would show up on my doorstep in two days. That no longer happens, not even regularly. Now it means "it'll get here sometime this week". So when my Prime renewal comes up again, it won't be getting renewed.
pasbesoin 10y ago
I'll add that this past year, multiple times the site told me my Prime shipping delivery date would be X. No further communication to indicate a delay. Indeed, the system shows the product shipped from whatever source. X would come and pass with no package. It would arrive on Y or even Z. I no longer trust Amazon's committed and communicated delivery dates. I suppose I could be all pro-active and self-advocating and repeatedly complain until I get some credits or whatever -- or at least an acknowledgment of the individual situation. But, that's not really the point of Prime, is it? It's supposed to reduce my hassle. Not this year, Amazon. Maybe before you continue your relentless expansion, you should shore up your extant services that built you your current position. As for me, I'm debating whether I allow or kill my 12/1 Prime auto-renewal. It's also more than a bit insulting to see new members getting Prime sign up deals for $80, year after year, while you're charging me $100. Who's been the loyal customer? Are you focused solely on growth? Are you such a "monster", "too big to fail", that you don't need to and don't worry about retention? I'm starting to more actively consider and use alternate purchasing vectors, despite Amazon's erstwhile convenience and payment data security. P.S. The Bluetooth speaker I order came with a small dent. A lot of items now ship "rattling" around inside a poorly packed shipping box. And the Amazon Basics USB C cable whose page says it supports fast charging, doesn't. My Amazon experience has been increasingly crappy. The one thing that's improved is that Prime video doesn't pixelate and stutter especially after first starting, like it used to.
- mikestew 10y ago
  I'll add that this past year, multiple times the site told me my Prime shipping delivery date would be X. No further communication to indicate a delay. Well, that's disappointing. Myself, I find myself being notified of the delay almost immediately. Let me walk you through it: 1. Page for the item says, "Order in the next 4 hours and get it by Tuesday". 2. Sounds sweet, I really need it by Tuesday. Order now with 1-Click, please 3. Email shows up seconds later: "Your item will arrive on Wednesday!" Fuckers. That's not a one-off, either, I'm finding it to happen pretty regularly these days.
  - hga 10y ago
    Yeah, I don't do 1-Click (e.g. didn't start Prime until 2 years ago), and I've seen that sort of thing on my consolidated orders when I check out. Sometimes I can get it isolated to one of the items in my cart, although it can't remember if they then came from different warehouses. Don't know about this being a Dark Pattern, though, vs. Amazon regressing to the mean, as others have noted in this context in other HN discussions, there are bound to be consequences to treating your technical staff horribly, with search's eternal awfulness being front and center.
xt00 10y ago
Agree this is rapidly turning into false advertising in my opinion. Basically the problem is that when it shows the "Prime" logo, its becoming much less meaningful. 2-day shipping but ships out in 2 days from now, but the 2 day delay is not visible anywhere until you are about to check-out, then what does that "Prime" logo really mean?? Will ship in 2 days after anywhere between 1-7 days of "handling time"?? I mean, honestly that is roughly how I'm interpreting it now..
jrnichols 10y ago
I wonder how much of this depends on where the user lives. I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, and Amazon has several large sized warehouses. I frequently find things showing up the next day, even though I have Prime and left it at 2 day shipping. A few items have even arrived on Sunday.
- AstroJetson 10y ago
  Same here, but we are close to the New Castle DE Amazon location. We get stuff on Sunday, but it's now delivered by a truck/van with an Amazon logo on it. Maybe what we are buying, but things ordered via Prime are here in two days. Most recent was bathroom fans. Builder on Friday said the ones we ordered wouldn't fit, ordered the smaller version, said come back Monday. UPS dropped them off at 10AM and they were installed by noon.
- mikestew 10y ago
  I wonder how much of this depends on where the user lives. I live in Redmond, WA. Someone with a good arm could throw a rock from here to Amazon HQ. I've probably also done the most complaining on this thread. Make of that what you will, because I sure can't make anything of it. :-)
deedubaya 10y ago
I've noticed this as well -- that Amazon's 2-day shipping doesn't really mean what it used to mean.
WheelsAtLarge 10y ago
I had the same question so I looked it up on the amazon site. According to the site 2 day shipping is 2 days from the time of shipping. It does not mean it will get to the purchaser in 2 days - Saturday and Sunday don't count. Here's the link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=3043211 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=... Anyway I look at it, prime works for me. I've even gotten stuff next day even though they predicted more days. It's amazing since sometimes it takes me few day to get to my local target to get the stuff I need.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  Whenever I ask customer-support about it, they always just refund me, and let me keep the item. It's only been items that are <$100, so YMMV. I've personally always thought that they were just making it up in volume from people who don't verify.
alexandrerond 10y ago
If I wrote a blog post every time something's wrong with a shipment...
pugworthy 10y ago
2 day, 3 day, even 4 day - I don't really care that much. I don't have to care about cost of shipping, it shows up "pretty fast" and that's what counts. I'm not trying to choose one vendor over another based on shipping cost, shipping time, etc. I just buy it and don't worry.
- misterhtmlcss 10y ago
  Not a comparable nor relevant statement. Almost like saying I paid for a first class ticket, landed 2 days latter and flew coach with everyone else. Give your head a shake man. If we pay for 2-day shipping and the service isn't being provided as promised that's IS the topic, not whether you care about the arrival speed or not. Not everything is about you.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Right, but if it matters to you, cancel your prime membership. Vote with your dollars. My hunch is that people just want to complain though, and the number of people who would actually quit prime is insignificant. Like OP, I don't care if it's 2-4 days; I can order from the iOS app with a few taps, and that's worth not ever having to shop other online retailers or drive to a store.
Bombthecat 10y ago
I feel like that Amazon stopped selling stuff on there own anyway. It is all third party now. Rarely delivered by Amazon...
rogerdpack 10y ago
I heard a rumor if it took more than 2 days you could contact support and get a free month of prime or something??

43 points by HoyaSaxa 10y ago

If you accept the fact that 2 day shipping doesn't necessarily mean 2 days given the proper circumstances, the same should apply to 1 day shipping. And probably in an inconsistent manner.

Nadya 10y ago

Their help page, unless recently modified, explains why this is. I agree it is a 'dark pattern' however. >If the item you're ordering is out of stock or unavailable to ship immediately, the shipping method time starts when the item ships. For example, it will take two business days after an item ships to reach you with Two-Day Shipping. Simply put - the item does not ship immediately. If you read the 'Guaranteed delivery date' message it gives you an "If you order in the next x hours and y minutes". That is when the shipment is expected to be made. Why are the boots 4 day shipping? Because the next guaranteed delivery time is in 61 hours (>48 hours, so 2 days to ship then 2 days to deliver = 4 day delivery). If it was "in the next 73 hours" it would be a 5 day delivery. The exploding kittens is 3 days because the order is within the next 24 hours. I wager if they waited 17 minutes one of two things would happen: it would estimate 2 day shipping or the date would be pushed back an additional 24 hours (never falling under 24 hours). I imagine this is because the companies selling these items can only guarantee shipment within 24/48/72 hours of receiving an order. If they set this to 72 then "2 day shipping" is really 4-5 days. My personal experience, nearly all of my 2 day shipping comes within 2 days, even when the guaranteed date is 3-4 days out. Items with 12-15 business day shipping often arrive in just a few days. I'm a bit forgiving when my 2 day shipment comes in 3 days when my 2 week shipments frequently come in 3-5 days...

FireBeyond 10y ago
Right, but this also happens when it says "Only xx left in stock, order now!" And also direct from / Fulfilled by Amazon.
- Nadya 10y ago
  Amazon is not immune from only being able to guarantee shipment within 24-72 hours of receiving an order. The "Only XX in stock" message may trump the "x hours and y minutes" message but that doesn't change how the math is being done - it just makes it invisible to the end user. It is two day shipping. Starting from the time it ships which they calculate using the guaranteed delivery date. Often the delivery date is "sooner" rather than "later" but they're only going to guarantee the "later" date and not the "sooner" date for obvious business reasons. While it is technically correct it isn't how people talk about shipping. Overnight means overnight to people - not overnight after I decide to ship it 3 weeks late. Which is why I agree it is a dark pattern. I imagine "Quick shipping" (no promise of X-day) doesn't market nearly as well. E: I'd like to make it clear I'm not meaning to defending the practice... only explain it. It seems very logical to me - even if confusing and unfriendly to many users who expect "2 day shipping" to mean "arrives in 2 days".
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    Further on the dark patterns, here's an order I'm looking at now: "Guaranteed delivery date: Dec 2, 2016 if you order in the next 9 hours and 27 minutes" With this it has "2 business days FREE Two-Day Shipping" selected. As of now, there are four business days (inclusive of delivery date, but not of today- the window listed above). What makes it worse: "One day shipping, Wed Nov. 30" So "one day shipping will be Wed Nov 30, but two day shipping will be Fri Dec 2"? Note that now they don't even mention "get it by" for anything other than one-day. I get the following: - Wednesday Nov 30 - $11.97 - One-Day Shipping - 2 business days - FREE Two-Day Shipping - 6 business days - FREE Two-Day Shipping - 7 business days - FREE No-Rush Shipping Get a $5 credit for Prime Pantry. No idea why anyone would choose 6 day delivery given the choice between 2 day and 7 day (plus credit).
    - Nadya 10y ago
      Well there goes my assumption on the maths. :) Thanks for the additional example. 9 hours = ships tomorrow. So 1 day shipping from tomorrow = Wednesday. But using my assumption above - the two day shipping would be Thursday, not Friday.
hga 10y ago
Another possibility is that 1 and 2 day shipping gets you put in different queues for available stock; if they don't have enough Exploding Kittens (?!?!?!!!) on hand right now to fulfill all 1 and 2 day orders, they're obviously going to prioritize the people who's revealed preference through hard, cold cash, is for "1 day" delivery.
HoyaSaxa 10y ago
Yes agreed, but the real question is why can they guarantee that your item will ship sooner if you select one-day shipping. They can conveniently get your item on the truck much more quickly (1 vs 3 days) if you are willing to pay extra for one-day shipping. For example for the boots: One-Day Shipping -> 1 day of processing + 1 day of shipping = 2 day turnaround Two-Day Shipping -> 3 days of processing + 2 days of shipping = 5 day turnaround
- developer2 10y ago
  Because when paying for 1-day shipping, the cost is astronomical. It would be unacceptable to pay that price and not have it next business day. If they couldn't actually do real one-day shipping, then they would not be able to offer it. It exists only because we have to pay a large fee on every individual delivery. You pay the high cost for a guaranteed service. Amazon Prime simply cannot scale at the given price point. People who place >= 100 orders a year are paying <= $1 per shipment. The $100/year Prime subscription is not sustainable if people use it. I'm sure they claw back a significant profit from people who buy Prime and then only order 10-20 times a year, but it's possible it doesn't earn back what excessive users are costing them. Is it a little shady that they offer 2-day shipping with caveats? Yes. They should either make it much more clear that there are no guarantees, or increase the cost of heavy Prime users to be profitable enough to scale it properly.

mikestew 10y ago

Whatever explanations might be bandied about both here and on Amazon's explanatory pages, no explanation will be sufficient to explain away my personal experience: used to be that when Amazon said "two day shipping", it would show up on my doorstep in two days. That no longer happens, not even regularly. Now it means "it'll get here sometime this week". So when my Prime renewal comes up again, it won't be getting renewed.

pasbesoin 10y ago

I'll add that this past year, multiple times the site told me my Prime shipping delivery date would be X. No further communication to indicate a delay. Indeed, the system shows the product shipped from whatever source. X would come and pass with no package. It would arrive on Y or even Z. I no longer trust Amazon's committed and communicated delivery dates. I suppose I could be all pro-active and self-advocating and repeatedly complain until I get some credits or whatever -- or at least an acknowledgment of the individual situation. But, that's not really the point of Prime, is it? It's supposed to reduce my hassle. Not this year, Amazon. Maybe before you continue your relentless expansion, you should shore up your extant services that built you your current position. As for me, I'm debating whether I allow or kill my 12/1 Prime auto-renewal. It's also more than a bit insulting to see new members getting Prime sign up deals for $80, year after year, while you're charging me $100. Who's been the loyal customer? Are you focused solely on growth? Are you such a "monster", "too big to fail", that you don't need to and don't worry about retention? I'm starting to more actively consider and use alternate purchasing vectors, despite Amazon's erstwhile convenience and payment data security. P.S. The Bluetooth speaker I order came with a small dent. A lot of items now ship "rattling" around inside a poorly packed shipping box. And the Amazon Basics USB C cable whose page says it supports fast charging, doesn't. My Amazon experience has been increasingly crappy. The one thing that's improved is that Prime video doesn't pixelate and stutter especially after first starting, like it used to.

mikestew 10y ago
I'll add that this past year, multiple times the site told me my Prime shipping delivery date would be X. No further communication to indicate a delay. Well, that's disappointing. Myself, I find myself being notified of the delay almost immediately. Let me walk you through it: 1. Page for the item says, "Order in the next 4 hours and get it by Tuesday". 2. Sounds sweet, I really need it by Tuesday. Order now with 1-Click, please 3. Email shows up seconds later: "Your item will arrive on Wednesday!" Fuckers. That's not a one-off, either, I'm finding it to happen pretty regularly these days.
- hga 10y ago
  Yeah, I don't do 1-Click (e.g. didn't start Prime until 2 years ago), and I've seen that sort of thing on my consolidated orders when I check out. Sometimes I can get it isolated to one of the items in my cart, although it can't remember if they then came from different warehouses. Don't know about this being a Dark Pattern, though, vs. Amazon regressing to the mean, as others have noted in this context in other HN discussions, there are bound to be consequences to treating your technical staff horribly, with search's eternal awfulness being front and center.

xt00 10y ago

Agree this is rapidly turning into false advertising in my opinion. Basically the problem is that when it shows the "Prime" logo, its becoming much less meaningful. 2-day shipping but ships out in 2 days from now, but the 2 day delay is not visible anywhere until you are about to check-out, then what does that "Prime" logo really mean?? Will ship in 2 days after anywhere between 1-7 days of "handling time"?? I mean, honestly that is roughly how I'm interpreting it now..

jrnichols 10y ago

I wonder how much of this depends on where the user lives. I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, and Amazon has several large sized warehouses. I frequently find things showing up the next day, even though I have Prime and left it at 2 day shipping. A few items have even arrived on Sunday.

AstroJetson 10y ago
Same here, but we are close to the New Castle DE Amazon location. We get stuff on Sunday, but it's now delivered by a truck/van with an Amazon logo on it. Maybe what we are buying, but things ordered via Prime are here in two days. Most recent was bathroom fans. Builder on Friday said the ones we ordered wouldn't fit, ordered the smaller version, said come back Monday. UPS dropped them off at 10AM and they were installed by noon.
mikestew 10y ago
I wonder how much of this depends on where the user lives. I live in Redmond, WA. Someone with a good arm could throw a rock from here to Amazon HQ. I've probably also done the most complaining on this thread. Make of that what you will, because I sure can't make anything of it. :-)

deedubaya 10y ago

I've noticed this as well -- that Amazon's 2-day shipping doesn't really mean what it used to mean.

WheelsAtLarge 10y ago

I had the same question so I looked it up on the amazon site. According to the site 2 day shipping is 2 days from the time of shipping. It does not mean it will get to the purchaser in 2 days - Saturday and Sunday don't count. Here's the link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=3043211 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=... Anyway I look at it, prime works for me. I've even gotten stuff next day even though they predicted more days. It's amazing since sometimes it takes me few day to get to my local target to get the stuff I need.

CaptSpify 10y ago
Whenever I ask customer-support about it, they always just refund me, and let me keep the item. It's only been items that are <$100, so YMMV. I've personally always thought that they were just making it up in volume from people who don't verify.

alexandrerond 10y ago

If I wrote a blog post every time something's wrong with a shipment...

pugworthy 10y ago

2 day, 3 day, even 4 day - I don't really care that much. I don't have to care about cost of shipping, it shows up "pretty fast" and that's what counts. I'm not trying to choose one vendor over another based on shipping cost, shipping time, etc. I just buy it and don't worry.

misterhtmlcss 10y ago
Not a comparable nor relevant statement. Almost like saying I paid for a first class ticket, landed 2 days latter and flew coach with everyone else. Give your head a shake man. If we pay for 2-day shipping and the service isn't being provided as promised that's IS the topic, not whether you care about the arrival speed or not. Not everything is about you.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Right, but if it matters to you, cancel your prime membership. Vote with your dollars. My hunch is that people just want to complain though, and the number of people who would actually quit prime is insignificant. Like OP, I don't care if it's 2-4 days; I can order from the iOS app with a few taps, and that's worth not ever having to shop other online retailers or drive to a store.

Bombthecat 10y ago

I feel like that Amazon stopped selling stuff on there own anyway. It is all third party now. Rarely delivered by Amazon...

rogerdpack 10y ago

I heard a rumor if it took more than 2 days you could contact support and get a free month of prime or something??