4 ms·

Ask HN: I have the dream to retire when I turn 40

8 points by bobnarizes 10y ago

Hi Hackernews, I need your advice! I have the dream to retire when I turn 40. So, I’m 30 years old and I’m living an average life. i.e. after having finished college I got my first job developing Apps for a small company. Then I moved to a huge old-school company… I’m not doing the innovative things I always dreamed of when I was at university, but I’m earning good money and I’m just working 35 hours per week which is the best. Since o was 25 y/o I’ve been dreaming of creating something that will give me enough money that I can quit any job and then I can focus in my own projects and enjoy life without doing stupid work (my opinion) for others. How realistic is this dream? I know I’m not the only one having it. How should I start?

mmastrac 10y ago
If you aren't playing the startup lottery, there is one and only one way to retire early: save aggressively and spend as little as possible. This is a great blog on early retirement and what it takes to get there. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim...
- CalChris 10y ago
  And then you have to have a clue about what you're going to do that won't blow through your nest egg before you're pushing daisies because if you try to re-enter the job market 15 years on it will only be to say Welcome to Walmart!
  - avghacker 10y ago
    Walmart greeters won't exist!
chrisbennet 10y ago
"Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life." I think finding a job you love and doing that will put more happiness "under the curve" than toiling at a job until you can retire, even if you can retire early. I love going to work and I've been doing longer than you've been alive - if I was going to burn out it would have happened by now. :-)
- Koshkin 10y ago
  This makes a lot of sense - especially since there are many interesting things in life that can only be done if you are an employee of a company or an organization. (Unless, of course, you are OK with trying to build, say, a fusion reactor in your basement).
- chrisbennet 10y ago
  I'll add a trick that I think helps: work for very small companies or ones with very small software groups. A startup qualifies of course but there are lots of small companies where you can work on interesting stuff without the risk of a startup. Large companies tend to have enough employees that people tend to specialize - it's an optimal arrangement for them[1]. Your "reward" for becoming the expert with technology "X" is that after a while you mostly get assigned to work with "X". At a small company, that is less likely to happen. At my last job as an employee in a 2 developer company I would find myself doing high level GUI (WPF/C#), low level computer vision (algorithms/C++) and bit-banging stuff out a communications port while watching the responses from the laser controller using a data logger - all in the same week. A small company can't afford to have a developer dedicated to a single thing so by necessity you wind up wearing a lot of hats and learning a lot in the process. [1] See theory of comparative advantage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage
  - madamelic 10y ago
    I'm glad to see I am not crazy. I really dislike the idea of being a specialist. I feel like a dweeb for banging on about disliking "corporate culture". I don't know how else to express that thought. But yeah, I go crazy if I am specialized / pigeon-holed into only doing one thing all day, every day.
    - chrisbennet 10y ago
      "I'm glad to see I'm not crazy." That doesn't prove you're not crazy. ;-) Call it ADHD, but I'd go nuts (nuttier?) doing the same thing every day too. These days I'm doing a computer vision project (C++/OpenCV/3D math) and a laser monitoring project(C#/WPF). I just wrapped up a radar graphics project(C++/OpenGL).
endswapper 10y ago
I'd argue that you are thinking and/or discussing this in the wrong terms. You have to do something. If you're doing what you want it's not really work even if it is. Right around your age I reached a point where I didn't have to work. I moved to the beach in Costa Rica, I travelled and it was fun. Fairly quickly I realized that would not sustain my interest for very long. I taught myself to code and I am pursuing a startup idea I believe in. It doesn't feel like work. It's the most work I've ever done in my life. I suggest finding how you want to spend your time, and why, and go do that. Then, even the things that you hate doing aren't work because they serve a purpose in the bigger picture of your life.
- usgroup 10y ago
  Fluffy as it sounds, I think this is right. Ultimately we often was to preserve optionality rather than "financial freedom". I.e. I want to be able to choose not to work by the time I'm 40 and/or I want to be able to choose what to work on. Financial independence is over-kill if this is your objective. There are simpler paths.
meric 10y ago
Save $300k and move to India.
- android521 10y ago
  Still not enough if he wants to maintain the same lifestyle (health care education for children etc)
  - meric 10y ago
    By working a couple of days a month in addition to $300k, he could have a big 5-room house, car with full time chauffeur, maids, electricity, broadband internet, clean water, all 6 of his children in private schools.
drakenot 10y ago
You should check out the financial independence subreddit[0]. The sidebar has links to a lot of material for you to read on this topic. People there are working toward FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early). Some people in the community care about the FI aspect only (and want to continue working in some form) and some care primarily about the RE side. Whatever your goals are, there are a bunch of people there that can help get you started. The FI subreddit is one of my favorites -- I enjoy reading through the daily threads and the Monday milestone threads. There are so many people who are younger than me who are way further ahead. I've learned to not let it bother me. I've mapped out my own path to FI and I'm working towards it. Even with extremely conservative estimates I will shave 10-15 years off my working career. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/ https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/
davismwfl 10y ago
It is realistic under certain circumstances. Here is the advice I would've given myself at 20-30 if I could have. One, invest aggressively in real estate or the stock market. Personally real estate is more predictable but everyone has their thing. Don't focus on startups or reducing your income with the promise of future earnings. Maximize every dollar you can make and pour it into investments. You will have an infinitely greater chance to retire younger this way. At the same time there is a critical factor to never forget. If you are miserable doing your job it isn't worth the sacrifice. So when you are choosing to "maximize every dollar" as I say, that really means maximize within the limits you are comfortable or happy with living under. A little sacrifice is fine but do not suffer with the thought later in life it will be great as you never know what the future will hold and if you are miserable for more days then you are happy in a given month, quarter or year you should really reevaluate.
- madamelic 10y ago
  >Don't focus on startups or reducing your income with the promise of future earnings. I would rephrase this as "Don't focus on startups that reduce your income with the promise of future earnings." Nothing wrong with startups if that's where you are most happy. Just be realistic about your options and don't expect to become a millionaire from them.
  - davismwfl 10y ago
    Yep I totally agree. My point was not against startups, but more that if you have this as a real defined goal (not just saying it would be cool) you have to focus on the most likely methods to make it happen. Startups are not the most likely way to do it as cash based income is usually partially traded for equity. In most cases that equity is worthless or not worth the same amount you gave up taking the reduced salary. The rare cases are where it really pays off. So at least IMO you take a job at a startup not to "get rich" but because you believe in the mission and want to work with the team. If it works out that you win the startup lottery awesome, but to me it is the journey and intense learning that makes startups fun.

8 points by bobnarizes 10y ago

mmastrac 10y ago

If you aren't playing the startup lottery, there is one and only one way to retire early: save aggressively and spend as little as possible. This is a great blog on early retirement and what it takes to get there. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim...

CalChris 10y ago
And then you have to have a clue about what you're going to do that won't blow through your nest egg before you're pushing daisies because if you try to re-enter the job market 15 years on it will only be to say Welcome to Walmart!
- avghacker 10y ago
  Walmart greeters won't exist!

chrisbennet 10y ago

"Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life." I think finding a job you love and doing that will put more happiness "under the curve" than toiling at a job until you can retire, even if you can retire early. I love going to work and I've been doing longer than you've been alive - if I was going to burn out it would have happened by now. :-)

Koshkin 10y ago
This makes a lot of sense - especially since there are many interesting things in life that can only be done if you are an employee of a company or an organization. (Unless, of course, you are OK with trying to build, say, a fusion reactor in your basement).
chrisbennet 10y ago
I'll add a trick that I think helps: work for very small companies or ones with very small software groups. A startup qualifies of course but there are lots of small companies where you can work on interesting stuff without the risk of a startup. Large companies tend to have enough employees that people tend to specialize - it's an optimal arrangement for them[1]. Your "reward" for becoming the expert with technology "X" is that after a while you mostly get assigned to work with "X". At a small company, that is less likely to happen. At my last job as an employee in a 2 developer company I would find myself doing high level GUI (WPF/C#), low level computer vision (algorithms/C++) and bit-banging stuff out a communications port while watching the responses from the laser controller using a data logger - all in the same week. A small company can't afford to have a developer dedicated to a single thing so by necessity you wind up wearing a lot of hats and learning a lot in the process. [1] See theory of comparative advantage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage
- madamelic 10y ago
  I'm glad to see I am not crazy. I really dislike the idea of being a specialist. I feel like a dweeb for banging on about disliking "corporate culture". I don't know how else to express that thought. But yeah, I go crazy if I am specialized / pigeon-holed into only doing one thing all day, every day.
  - chrisbennet 10y ago
    "I'm glad to see I'm not crazy." That doesn't prove you're not crazy. ;-) Call it ADHD, but I'd go nuts (nuttier?) doing the same thing every day too. These days I'm doing a computer vision project (C++/OpenCV/3D math) and a laser monitoring project(C#/WPF). I just wrapped up a radar graphics project(C++/OpenGL).

endswapper 10y ago

I'd argue that you are thinking and/or discussing this in the wrong terms. You have to do something. If you're doing what you want it's not really work even if it is. Right around your age I reached a point where I didn't have to work. I moved to the beach in Costa Rica, I travelled and it was fun. Fairly quickly I realized that would not sustain my interest for very long. I taught myself to code and I am pursuing a startup idea I believe in. It doesn't feel like work. It's the most work I've ever done in my life. I suggest finding how you want to spend your time, and why, and go do that. Then, even the things that you hate doing aren't work because they serve a purpose in the bigger picture of your life.

usgroup 10y ago
Fluffy as it sounds, I think this is right. Ultimately we often was to preserve optionality rather than "financial freedom". I.e. I want to be able to choose not to work by the time I'm 40 and/or I want to be able to choose what to work on. Financial independence is over-kill if this is your objective. There are simpler paths.

meric 10y ago

Save $300k and move to India.

android521 10y ago
Still not enough if he wants to maintain the same lifestyle (health care education for children etc)
- meric 10y ago
  By working a couple of days a month in addition to $300k, he could have a big 5-room house, car with full time chauffeur, maids, electricity, broadband internet, clean water, all 6 of his children in private schools.

drakenot 10y ago

You should check out the financial independence subreddit[0]. The sidebar has links to a lot of material for you to read on this topic. People there are working toward FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early). Some people in the community care about the FI aspect only (and want to continue working in some form) and some care primarily about the RE side. Whatever your goals are, there are a bunch of people there that can help get you started. The FI subreddit is one of my favorites -- I enjoy reading through the daily threads and the Monday milestone threads. There are so many people who are younger than me who are way further ahead. I've learned to not let it bother me. I've mapped out my own path to FI and I'm working towards it. Even with extremely conservative estimates I will shave 10-15 years off my working career. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/ https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/

davismwfl 10y ago

It is realistic under certain circumstances. Here is the advice I would've given myself at 20-30 if I could have. One, invest aggressively in real estate or the stock market. Personally real estate is more predictable but everyone has their thing. Don't focus on startups or reducing your income with the promise of future earnings. Maximize every dollar you can make and pour it into investments. You will have an infinitely greater chance to retire younger this way. At the same time there is a critical factor to never forget. If you are miserable doing your job it isn't worth the sacrifice. So when you are choosing to "maximize every dollar" as I say, that really means maximize within the limits you are comfortable or happy with living under. A little sacrifice is fine but do not suffer with the thought later in life it will be great as you never know what the future will hold and if you are miserable for more days then you are happy in a given month, quarter or year you should really reevaluate.

madamelic 10y ago
>Don't focus on startups or reducing your income with the promise of future earnings. I would rephrase this as "Don't focus on startups that reduce your income with the promise of future earnings." Nothing wrong with startups if that's where you are most happy. Just be realistic about your options and don't expect to become a millionaire from them.
- davismwfl 10y ago
  Yep I totally agree. My point was not against startups, but more that if you have this as a real defined goal (not just saying it would be cool) you have to focus on the most likely methods to make it happen. Startups are not the most likely way to do it as cash based income is usually partially traded for equity. In most cases that equity is worthless or not worth the same amount you gave up taking the reduced salary. The rare cases are where it really pays off. So at least IMO you take a job at a startup not to "get rich" but because you believe in the mission and want to work with the team. If it works out that you win the startup lottery awesome, but to me it is the journey and intense learning that makes startups fun.