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> The magnet companies sold these items as a toy to children and resisted efforts to put warnings on them and resisted efforts to stop them being sold to childr

> The magnet companies sold these items as a toy to children and resisted efforts to put warnings on them and resisted efforts to stop them being sold to children. That's categorically false.

DanBC 10y ago
> That's categorically false. No it's not. This submission is about one company resisting the regulatory action created when buckyballs continued to sell the product to 14 year olds, even though they knew teenagers were among the > 1000 children hospitalised by these magnets.
- jontas 10y ago
  Do you have anything to back up this claim? I worked intimately with these companies and saw nothing of the sort.
- burfog 10y ago
  There are places, not just in the 3rd world, where a 14-year-old can get married or drive a vehicle or have a gun. These are not children.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Dan you're being wildly untruthful here. Buckyballs were sold with very clear warnings and it is not their fault if people ignore those warnings. Are you really trying to argue that a 14 year old is so overcome by the overwhelming desire to experience magnetic forces that s/he is unable to read a warning label, and the only sensible course of action is to halt all sales of the product? Come off it.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    This submission is not about buckyballs, but buckyballs and zenmagnets worked hard to resist the efforts of the regulators. The warnings you talk about on buckyballs did not say "adults only", they said "13+". It is dishonest to suggest that buckyballs didn't sell to children and to say that buckyballs included warnings about not selling to children when the warnings said 13+. > Are you really trying to argue that a 14 year old is so overcome by the overwhelming desire to experience magnetic forces that s/he is unable to read a warning label That's what happened, yes. Children are by definition fucking idiots. That's why we don't let them drive; drink alcohol; vote; run for office; enter into contracts; join the military; live by themselves; get married; have sex; etc. >, and the only sensible course of action is to halt all sales of the product? Come off it. I'm saying we tried warning labels. Parents and children and toy stores ignored those warnings, and children ended up hospitalised as a result. The manufacturers resisted attempts to strengthen the warnings; regulators were forced into issuing a ban because soft-touch regulation failed. The manufacturers brought this upon themselves by not controlling their supply chain properly and by resisting better clearer warnings.
    - anigbrowl 10y ago
      No, children are not fucking idiots. I did some dangerous stuff as a teenager (mostly involving fire) but I knew it was dangerous. Many products can cause injury if swallowed but in most jurisdictions people are recommended to keep them away from children under 3. Past that age it's expected that parents will advise them about what is or isn't edible. If you are telling me that a 13 year old can't comprehend a clearly written warning then I call bullshit. If parents and children and toy stores ignore the warnings then the responsibility lies with them, not the manufacturers. I am not willing to live in a society where everything has to be dumbed down to the level of safety for a small child. The manufacturers brought this upon themselves by not controlling their supply chain properly and by resisting better clearer warnings. What does the supply chain have to do with consumer behavior? Total bullshit. Why don't you think that parents, toy stores and older children are immune from responsibility when they are given clear warnings of the danger? I take responsibility for myself and any kids that are temporarily in my care, so you should you and so should everyone else. You're literally arguing that adults should be able to have nice things because some people are too fucking stupid to follow directions. No. Once they've been properly informed and still choose to do stupid shit, it's their responsibility, not mine or yours. Why are you arguing so intently for treating everyone like children just because some adults refuse to accept responsibility?
      - tunap 10y ago
        throw a "not" in the 1 sentence of last paragraph if you can still edit. correct meaning is still obvious with omission.
      - qb45 10y ago
        Maybe Dan confused 13 year olds with 13 month olds - these guys indeed try to eat every shit they find on the floor :)
    - jontas 10y ago
      I don't think you know what you're talking about. There was a voluntary recall prior to the CPSC action to improve the language on the warnings. Additionally, Buckyballs were never sold to toy stores, nor were they marketed as toys, nor were they allowed to be sold in the toy section of stores that carried other kinds of products. I am not sure where you got the idea that the companies were trying to sell these thing to children. They never attempted to do that, and if they had they would be liable for millions in damages. They did everything they could to save their business and cooperated with the CPSC in every possible way. Disclaimer: I am not directly involved with these companies but I am a freelancer who built and ran the Buckyballs website for almost four years.

> The magnet companies sold these items as a toy to children and resisted efforts to put warnings on them and resisted efforts to stop them being sold to children. That's categorically false.

DanBC 10y ago

> That's categorically false. No it's not. This submission is about one company resisting the regulatory action created when buckyballs continued to sell the product to 14 year olds, even though they knew teenagers were among the > 1000 children hospitalised by these magnets.

jontas 10y ago
Do you have anything to back up this claim? I worked intimately with these companies and saw nothing of the sort.
burfog 10y ago
There are places, not just in the 3rd world, where a 14-year-old can get married or drive a vehicle or have a gun. These are not children.
anigbrowl 10y ago
Dan you're being wildly untruthful here. Buckyballs were sold with very clear warnings and it is not their fault if people ignore those warnings. Are you really trying to argue that a 14 year old is so overcome by the overwhelming desire to experience magnetic forces that s/he is unable to read a warning label, and the only sensible course of action is to halt all sales of the product? Come off it.
- DanBC 10y ago
  This submission is not about buckyballs, but buckyballs and zenmagnets worked hard to resist the efforts of the regulators. The warnings you talk about on buckyballs did not say "adults only", they said "13+". It is dishonest to suggest that buckyballs didn't sell to children and to say that buckyballs included warnings about not selling to children when the warnings said 13+. > Are you really trying to argue that a 14 year old is so overcome by the overwhelming desire to experience magnetic forces that s/he is unable to read a warning label That's what happened, yes. Children are by definition fucking idiots. That's why we don't let them drive; drink alcohol; vote; run for office; enter into contracts; join the military; live by themselves; get married; have sex; etc. >, and the only sensible course of action is to halt all sales of the product? Come off it. I'm saying we tried warning labels. Parents and children and toy stores ignored those warnings, and children ended up hospitalised as a result. The manufacturers resisted attempts to strengthen the warnings; regulators were forced into issuing a ban because soft-touch regulation failed. The manufacturers brought this upon themselves by not controlling their supply chain properly and by resisting better clearer warnings.
  - anigbrowl 10y ago
    No, children are not fucking idiots. I did some dangerous stuff as a teenager (mostly involving fire) but I knew it was dangerous. Many products can cause injury if swallowed but in most jurisdictions people are recommended to keep them away from children under 3. Past that age it's expected that parents will advise them about what is or isn't edible. If you are telling me that a 13 year old can't comprehend a clearly written warning then I call bullshit. If parents and children and toy stores ignore the warnings then the responsibility lies with them, not the manufacturers. I am not willing to live in a society where everything has to be dumbed down to the level of safety for a small child. The manufacturers brought this upon themselves by not controlling their supply chain properly and by resisting better clearer warnings. What does the supply chain have to do with consumer behavior? Total bullshit. Why don't you think that parents, toy stores and older children are immune from responsibility when they are given clear warnings of the danger? I take responsibility for myself and any kids that are temporarily in my care, so you should you and so should everyone else. You're literally arguing that adults should be able to have nice things because some people are too fucking stupid to follow directions. No. Once they've been properly informed and still choose to do stupid shit, it's their responsibility, not mine or yours. Why are you arguing so intently for treating everyone like children just because some adults refuse to accept responsibility?
    - tunap 10y ago
      throw a "not" in the 1 sentence of last paragraph if you can still edit. correct meaning is still obvious with omission.
    - qb45 10y ago
      Maybe Dan confused 13 year olds with 13 month olds - these guys indeed try to eat every shit they find on the floor :)
  - jontas 10y ago
    I don't think you know what you're talking about. There was a voluntary recall prior to the CPSC action to improve the language on the warnings. Additionally, Buckyballs were never sold to toy stores, nor were they marketed as toys, nor were they allowed to be sold in the toy section of stores that carried other kinds of products. I am not sure where you got the idea that the companies were trying to sell these thing to children. They never attempted to do that, and if they had they would be liable for millions in damages. They did everything they could to save their business and cooperated with the CPSC in every possible way. Disclaimer: I am not directly involved with these companies but I am a freelancer who built and ran the Buckyballs website for almost four years.