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The Gazans voted in Hamas democratically and Israel pulled out of their occupation, if that's the name for it, and now the place is worse than ever.

jbooth 17y ago
That's not really the whole story, and given that Hamas forcibly evicted the also-democratically-elected executive branch, I wouldn't exactly call their rule democratic. For a typical Gazan, they're stuck with Hamas and Israel even if they'd rather not deal with either of them.
- adrianwaj 17y ago
  Israel care more about the people of Gaza way more than Hamas. It's a real tragedy.
MichaelSalib 17y ago
Um, I don't think Israel "pulled out of their occupation." I'm pretty sure that Gaza's borders are completely sealed by the Israeli military as is their airspace. There might not be Israeli soldiers inside Gaza, but the occupation continues as long as Israel maintains complete control over airspace and borders.
- adrianwaj 17y ago
  That's just too bad for Gaza. Hamas will have to learn how to stop firing rockets into Israel's airspace. What sort of borders were you hoping for?
  - MichaelSalib 17y ago
    My hopes are irrelevant to the discussion. My point was that your claim is inaccurate. If you're unwilling to make factual claims, than maybe you shouldn't participate in this discussion. The world needs neither more ignorance nor more lies when discussing global conflicts.
    - adrianwaj 17y ago
      What parts are inaccurate, Michael?
      - MichaelSalib 17y ago
        The part about Israel ending its occupation. Removing soldiers from Gaza is insufficient to end the occupation. At least, according to the UN, Human Rights Watch, and scores of NGOs.
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
        adrianwaj 17y ago
        Those organizations are basically just inconsolable, fixated and merciless Israel-bashers. I don't buy into their rhetoric, and you shouldn't either. The Israeli army said the Palestinians had stopped buying fuel in recent days after Hamas failed to pay its share of the costs. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100409/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictgazaelectricity http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100409/wl_mideast_afp/mideastc... Israel is the victim, and it is far too accommodating with the murderers at her doorsteps.
        jbooth 17y ago
        Your absolutist proclamations are a good example of what's wrong on all sides of the equation. Israel is a victim to some extent, yeah. But until Israel ends the blockade of Gaza and lets them trade freely from their own coastline, they're still under occupation.
        adrianwaj 17y ago
        until Israel ends the blockade of Gaza and lets them trade freely from their own coastline, they're still under occupation such a moronic statement on Hacker News, I'm shocked. Do you think trade is stifled just so people like you can shout demands at Israel, a country at war, from the sidelines?

jbooth 17y ago

That's not really the whole story, and given that Hamas forcibly evicted the also-democratically-elected executive branch, I wouldn't exactly call their rule democratic. For a typical Gazan, they're stuck with Hamas and Israel even if they'd rather not deal with either of them.

adrianwaj 17y ago
Israel care more about the people of Gaza way more than Hamas. It's a real tragedy.

MichaelSalib 17y ago

Um, I don't think Israel "pulled out of their occupation." I'm pretty sure that Gaza's borders are completely sealed by the Israeli military as is their airspace. There might not be Israeli soldiers inside Gaza, but the occupation continues as long as Israel maintains complete control over airspace and borders.

adrianwaj 17y ago
That's just too bad for Gaza. Hamas will have to learn how to stop firing rockets into Israel's airspace. What sort of borders were you hoping for?
- MichaelSalib 17y ago
  My hopes are irrelevant to the discussion. My point was that your claim is inaccurate. If you're unwilling to make factual claims, than maybe you shouldn't participate in this discussion. The world needs neither more ignorance nor more lies when discussing global conflicts.
  - adrianwaj 17y ago
    What parts are inaccurate, Michael?
    - MichaelSalib 17y ago
      The part about Israel ending its occupation. Removing soldiers from Gaza is insufficient to end the occupation. At least, according to the UN, Human Rights Watch, and scores of NGOs.
      - deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
      - adrianwaj 17y ago
        Those organizations are basically just inconsolable, fixated and merciless Israel-bashers. I don't buy into their rhetoric, and you shouldn't either. The Israeli army said the Palestinians had stopped buying fuel in recent days after Hamas failed to pay its share of the costs. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100409/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictgazaelectricity http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100409/wl_mideast_afp/mideastc... Israel is the victim, and it is far too accommodating with the murderers at her doorsteps.
        jbooth 17y ago
        Your absolutist proclamations are a good example of what's wrong on all sides of the equation. Israel is a victim to some extent, yeah. But until Israel ends the blockade of Gaza and lets them trade freely from their own coastline, they're still under occupation.
        adrianwaj 17y ago
        until Israel ends the blockade of Gaza and lets them trade freely from their own coastline, they're still under occupation such a moronic statement on Hacker News, I'm shocked. Do you think trade is stifled just so people like you can shout demands at Israel, a country at war, from the sidelines?