4 ms·

Ask HN: Please ban links to e-commerce checkout pages and paywalled articles

3 points by grandalf 10y ago

HN does not feature advertisements on the home page, and it should not feature paywalled links, as they are essentially just ads for content that is blocked unless the user pays. Similarly, HN should not allow links that automatically add an item to a user's e-commerce cart and then direct the user to the checkout page. If not an outright ban, both of these types of links should be flagged to prevent inadvertent clicking.

aml183 10y ago
So articles from the WSJ and NYT should be banned?
- grandalf 10y ago
  Getting a link on the HN home page results in hundreds of thousands of clicks from highly intelligent, successful people, many of whom are influential and wealthy. The WSJ and NYT should remove the paywall for all links originating on HN. In the meantime, yes, they should be banned.
  - ajeet_dhaliwal 10y ago
    They can't identify users from HN like me who are not highly intelligent, successful, influential or wealthy though. Another problem is some people don't hit these paywalls because they do not frequent these sites, it's usually based on number of articles read per period, so it's frustrating for some and others have no idea there even is a pay wall. The biggest problem is won't it limit the discussions that can be had?
    - grandalf 10y ago
      > others have no idea there even is a pay wall. True. > won't it limit the discussions that can be had? Perhaps, but if it were someone creating Amazon links to books that automatically added the book to cart and redirected the user to checkout, I think we'd accurately see the paywall link spam for what it is. I don't think there is really anything that is covered by paywall sites that doesn't have solid coverage in AP stories or other general interest, non-paywalled publications.
chrisseaton 10y ago
I disagree. Do you think discussing a book online is wrong if people have to pay to buy the book?
- grandalf 10y ago
  That's fine if it's a blog post about the book containing some excerpts and some analysis, but that's quite different from a link that simply leads to a form to fill out one's credit card info!
  - chrisseaton 10y ago
    For a lot of people the comments on HN are the equivalent of the excerpts and the analysis - it's a place to discuss the article. Yeah you can't take part if you haven't read the article, like you can't take part in a discussion of a book you refuse to buy.
    - grandalf 10y ago
      That's a good point, however considering that there are many thousands of books one might choose to read, by your logic the HN front page ought to be filled with "add to cart" links for those books on Amazon. Frankly even Amazon lets you read a few pages of a book and reviews before deciding whether to purchase. I think the more important question is whether the HN home page should be directly supporting revenue generation efforts by media orgs. They contrive article titles to be clickbait, only to load a paywall when the user clicks with absolutely no context, no preview, etc. This is about HN taking a stand against being used simply as a revenue generation "channel" by media orgs. I'd be hard pressed to find a more intelligent, wealthy, and influential demographic than HN readers. News orgs have realized this and they actively promote stories on HN to drive revenue.
      - chrisseaton 10y ago
        > This is about HN taking a stand My personal opinion, probably shared by others, is that I'm not really interested in HN 'taking a stand' about anything. The website is fine just doing its job without any aspirations to change the world. My advice would be to vote with your feet by not up-voting or visiting stories that you don't like. If other people feel the same way they'll die away. I would guess most people don't feel the same way, so they probably won't.
gus_massa 10y ago
> Similarly, HN should not allow links that automatically add an item to a user's e-commerce cart and then direct the user to the checkout page. I didn't notice them. Do you have 2 or 3 recent examples?
dang 10y ago
Obviously checkout links aren't valid submissions here, and you should flag them so we can kill them and perhaps ban the sites. Paywalled articles are different. That's a settled matter on HN. The rule is that paywalled articles are ok when there's a workaround: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 Yes, the paywalls suck, but it would suck worse to deprive HN of the better NYT, WSJ, Economist, New Yorker, etc., articles.

3 points by grandalf 10y ago

aml183 10y ago

So articles from the WSJ and NYT should be banned?

grandalf 10y ago
Getting a link on the HN home page results in hundreds of thousands of clicks from highly intelligent, successful people, many of whom are influential and wealthy. The WSJ and NYT should remove the paywall for all links originating on HN. In the meantime, yes, they should be banned.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 10y ago
  They can't identify users from HN like me who are not highly intelligent, successful, influential or wealthy though. Another problem is some people don't hit these paywalls because they do not frequent these sites, it's usually based on number of articles read per period, so it's frustrating for some and others have no idea there even is a pay wall. The biggest problem is won't it limit the discussions that can be had?
  - grandalf 10y ago
    > others have no idea there even is a pay wall. True. > won't it limit the discussions that can be had? Perhaps, but if it were someone creating Amazon links to books that automatically added the book to cart and redirected the user to checkout, I think we'd accurately see the paywall link spam for what it is. I don't think there is really anything that is covered by paywall sites that doesn't have solid coverage in AP stories or other general interest, non-paywalled publications.

chrisseaton 10y ago

I disagree. Do you think discussing a book online is wrong if people have to pay to buy the book?

grandalf 10y ago
That's fine if it's a blog post about the book containing some excerpts and some analysis, but that's quite different from a link that simply leads to a form to fill out one's credit card info!
- chrisseaton 10y ago
  For a lot of people the comments on HN are the equivalent of the excerpts and the analysis - it's a place to discuss the article. Yeah you can't take part if you haven't read the article, like you can't take part in a discussion of a book you refuse to buy.
  - grandalf 10y ago
    That's a good point, however considering that there are many thousands of books one might choose to read, by your logic the HN front page ought to be filled with "add to cart" links for those books on Amazon. Frankly even Amazon lets you read a few pages of a book and reviews before deciding whether to purchase. I think the more important question is whether the HN home page should be directly supporting revenue generation efforts by media orgs. They contrive article titles to be clickbait, only to load a paywall when the user clicks with absolutely no context, no preview, etc. This is about HN taking a stand against being used simply as a revenue generation "channel" by media orgs. I'd be hard pressed to find a more intelligent, wealthy, and influential demographic than HN readers. News orgs have realized this and they actively promote stories on HN to drive revenue.
    - chrisseaton 10y ago
      > This is about HN taking a stand My personal opinion, probably shared by others, is that I'm not really interested in HN 'taking a stand' about anything. The website is fine just doing its job without any aspirations to change the world. My advice would be to vote with your feet by not up-voting or visiting stories that you don't like. If other people feel the same way they'll die away. I would guess most people don't feel the same way, so they probably won't.

gus_massa 10y ago

> Similarly, HN should not allow links that automatically add an item to a user's e-commerce cart and then direct the user to the checkout page. I didn't notice them. Do you have 2 or 3 recent examples?

dang 10y ago

Obviously checkout links aren't valid submissions here, and you should flag them so we can kill them and perhaps ban the sites. Paywalled articles are different. That's a settled matter on HN. The rule is that paywalled articles are ok when there's a workaround: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 Yes, the paywalls suck, but it would suck worse to deprive HN of the better NYT, WSJ, Economist, New Yorker, etc., articles.