5 ms·

There's a pretty big disconnect between 0.05% and 1.4%. Believing their numbers would indicate their average page sizes end up being around 7 KiB, or their head

by byuu 10y ago

There's a pretty big disconnect between 0.05% and 1.4%. Believing their numbers would indicate their average page sizes end up being around 7 KiB, or their headers end up being gigantic 4 KiB+ monstrosities, both of which I have trouble believing. But it's still small. Instead of adding a large chunk of complexity to HTTP/2, how much of that 1.4% do you suppose could be gleaned by removing unnecessary headers like Date, Server, X-Powered-By, cf-ray (on Cloudflare), etc? I understand that for Cloudflare hosting/proxying others' sites, their options are limited and they have to forward their customers' headers along. But I still think adding all of this is a bad idea. Not that it matters of course, it's already done. The IETF basically rubber stamped SPDY.

tehbeard 10y ago
I've only glanced at the HTTP/2 spec, but doesn't it allow reuse of headers between requests? e.g. The security headers wouldn't need to be sent with each file, only the first? This could be where the bandwidth savings are coming from.
- niftich 10y ago
  Yes, it allows re-use. Access-Control-Allow-Origin is in the static table, and so is Strict-Transport-Security. The rest go into the dynamic table [1], which would be beneficial if they don't change. Most security headers are hardcodeable, while C-S-P is designed to be a function of the selected resource representation, not some site-wide global. But it's often used in such a way. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7541#section-2.4 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7541#section-2.4
- Matthias247 10y ago
  That's what HPACK (which is described in the article) and it's dynamic header table is for. However as soon as you exceed a certain amount of headers (the size which you can store in the dynamic table - typically 4kB) the header table might no longer work as good as possible. That's because the newer headers will always lead to the eviction of older headers in the table, and therefore headers will no longer be cached for the duration of the connection.
raptium 10y ago
There are more gigantic monstrosities than expected. `content-security-policy` on inbox.google.com is 1.4K and my `cookie` sent to inbox is around 900B. :-(
- niftich 10y ago
  Security headers are worthy of a different [1], lengthy conversation, but they were borne out of need to override defaults about a browser's security features. Sometimes, for different features, those defaults are permissive, and sometimes they're restrictive, provided the browser supports that header -- and most of them were designed to be backward-compatible so that their truth tables are complicated. But realistically, consider C-S-P as metadata about the resource representation about to be delivered in the body, instead of a property of the HTTP response itself. In fact, the naming of the header 'Content-[...]' is consistent with the semantics of RFC 7231 [2] which defines a number of different 'Content-[...]' headers, like 'Content-Type' and 'Content-Language'. You can mentally move C-S-P from the HTTP headers into a meta tag (you can do this actually [3]). [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=niftich%20"damn%20header"&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=niftich%20"damn%20header"&type... [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-3.1 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-3.1 [3] https://w3c.github.io/webappsec-csp/#meta-element https://w3c.github.io/webappsec-csp/#meta-element
throwbsidbdk 10y ago
The net effect is much larger than the smallish overall effect appears to be. The request is much smaller and this has a surprisingly large effect because modern consumer connections are asymmetrical as much as 20/1. Those requests take 5-20 times as long per byte to send over the wire. Shrinking them this much decreases total request -> response time a lot more than it looks

by byuu 10y ago

tehbeard 10y ago

I've only glanced at the HTTP/2 spec, but doesn't it allow reuse of headers between requests? e.g. The security headers wouldn't need to be sent with each file, only the first? This could be where the bandwidth savings are coming from.

niftich 10y ago
Yes, it allows re-use. Access-Control-Allow-Origin is in the static table, and so is Strict-Transport-Security. The rest go into the dynamic table [1], which would be beneficial if they don't change. Most security headers are hardcodeable, while C-S-P is designed to be a function of the selected resource representation, not some site-wide global. But it's often used in such a way. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7541#section-2.4 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7541#section-2.4
Matthias247 10y ago
That's what HPACK (which is described in the article) and it's dynamic header table is for. However as soon as you exceed a certain amount of headers (the size which you can store in the dynamic table - typically 4kB) the header table might no longer work as good as possible. That's because the newer headers will always lead to the eviction of older headers in the table, and therefore headers will no longer be cached for the duration of the connection.

raptium 10y ago

There are more gigantic monstrosities than expected. `content-security-policy` on inbox.google.com is 1.4K and my `cookie` sent to inbox is around 900B. :-(

niftich 10y ago
Security headers are worthy of a different [1], lengthy conversation, but they were borne out of need to override defaults about a browser's security features. Sometimes, for different features, those defaults are permissive, and sometimes they're restrictive, provided the browser supports that header -- and most of them were designed to be backward-compatible so that their truth tables are complicated. But realistically, consider C-S-P as metadata about the resource representation about to be delivered in the body, instead of a property of the HTTP response itself. In fact, the naming of the header 'Content-[...]' is consistent with the semantics of RFC 7231 [2] which defines a number of different 'Content-[...]' headers, like 'Content-Type' and 'Content-Language'. You can mentally move C-S-P from the HTTP headers into a meta tag (you can do this actually [3]). [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=niftich%20"damn%20header"&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=niftich%20"damn%20header"&type... [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-3.1 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-3.1 [3] https://w3c.github.io/webappsec-csp/#meta-element https://w3c.github.io/webappsec-csp/#meta-element

throwbsidbdk 10y ago

The net effect is much larger than the smallish overall effect appears to be. The request is much smaller and this has a surprisingly large effect because modern consumer connections are asymmetrical as much as 20/1. Those requests take 5-20 times as long per byte to send over the wire. Shrinking them this much decreases total request -> response time a lot more than it looks