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>enjoying the danger This is a hilariously bad attitude for any software that other people will use. When software crashes, people lose work and time. When s

by jpfed 10y ago

>enjoying the danger This is a hilariously bad attitude for any software that other people will use. When software crashes, people lose work and time. When software has vulnerabilities, bad guys take advantage of them and build stronger botnets. "The danger" isn't like wiping out when you're pulling a stunt; "the danger" is wasting the good guys' time and empowering bad guys. >There is a lot of great code written in C, and a lot of crappy code written in C This is true of any mainstream language, so it's completely uninformative and pre-emptively shuts down the possibility of any meaningful language criticism.

sidlls 10y ago
On the other hand a lot of the criticism of C and C++ is structured to exaggerate their deficiencies and minimize the proposed alternatives' by couching the comparison in contexts which favor the latter over the former by dint of language design. I'm not convinced that is a path to open and honest discussion, either.
chongli 10y ago
This is a hilariously bad attitude for any software that other people will use. When software crashes, people lose work and time. When software has vulnerabilities, bad guys take advantage of them and build stronger botnets. "The danger" isn't like wiping out when you're pulling a stunt; "the danger" is wasting the good guys' time and empowering bad guys. Computers aren't just tools, they're also toys. People use computers for entertainment in varied and sundry ways. What is so wrong with somebody wanting to enjoy hacking around in the low level guts of a system? As long as no lives or livelihoods are at stake, what's the problem?
- sidlls 10y ago
  What's amusing to me is the amount of terribly unsafe code (that isn't C) that powers rockets, moon landers, and a variety of other safety-critical systems and yet isn't the subject of such persistent and severe criticisms. There's a reason C and C++ are targets. My (obviously controversial) opinion is it has at least as much to do with ego as a desire for safety.
  - baka 10y ago
    As far as I know most space software these days, and embedded in general, is in (at least a sub/superset of) C.
    - sidlls 10y ago
      Yes, but it wasn't always, and still isn't always. Although your point is very good in that it weakens (further) the "safety is everything" argument. In my opinion. There is so much mission critical software today that is written in C and C++. That's one reason why "safety, safety, safety!" just isn't as persuasive to me as it perhaps is to others.
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    We have a winner. Kill your ego. It's the only way.

by jpfed 10y ago

sidlls 10y ago

On the other hand a lot of the criticism of C and C++ is structured to exaggerate their deficiencies and minimize the proposed alternatives' by couching the comparison in contexts which favor the latter over the former by dint of language design. I'm not convinced that is a path to open and honest discussion, either.

chongli 10y ago

This is a hilariously bad attitude for any software that other people will use. When software crashes, people lose work and time. When software has vulnerabilities, bad guys take advantage of them and build stronger botnets. "The danger" isn't like wiping out when you're pulling a stunt; "the danger" is wasting the good guys' time and empowering bad guys. Computers aren't just tools, they're also toys. People use computers for entertainment in varied and sundry ways. What is so wrong with somebody wanting to enjoy hacking around in the low level guts of a system? As long as no lives or livelihoods are at stake, what's the problem?

sidlls 10y ago
What's amusing to me is the amount of terribly unsafe code (that isn't C) that powers rockets, moon landers, and a variety of other safety-critical systems and yet isn't the subject of such persistent and severe criticisms. There's a reason C and C++ are targets. My (obviously controversial) opinion is it has at least as much to do with ego as a desire for safety.
- baka 10y ago
  As far as I know most space software these days, and embedded in general, is in (at least a sub/superset of) C.
  - sidlls 10y ago
    Yes, but it wasn't always, and still isn't always. Although your point is very good in that it weakens (further) the "safety is everything" argument. In my opinion. There is so much mission critical software today that is written in C and C++. That's one reason why "safety, safety, safety!" just isn't as persuasive to me as it perhaps is to others.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  We have a winner. Kill your ego. It's the only way.