9 ms·

As a kinda-technically-white male heterosexual myself, I think you've been reading too many conspiracy websites, or possibly idiotic Twitter feeds, if you think

As a kinda-technically-white male heterosexual myself, I think you've been reading too many conspiracy websites, or possibly idiotic Twitter feeds, if you think anyone is asking us to "commit suicide", or claiming we're "guilty". Also, as a Jew, welcome to being a minority: you'll live.

hga 10y ago
Also, as a Jew, welcome to being a minority: you'll live. That wasn't true for 5-6 million of your minority in WWII.... You're welcome to square Hillary calling me "irredeemable" with the Left's treatment of such people, the National Socialist German Workers' Party providing just one particularly relevant example to your and my discussion here. As for "guilty", white guilt is a thing that goes way beyond "conspiracy websites" or "idiotic Twitter feeds": https://www.google.com/search?q=white+guilt https://www.google.com/search?q=white+guilt To finish, with you being a Jew, "What you mean 'we,' kemosabe?" You're very much correct to weasel word "kinda-technically-white".
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Clinton's remarks did not reflect well upon her and were revealing about her attitude towards a large number of people. That said, her meaning was not "Trump Supporter"->"irredeemable", it was "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic"->"irredeemable". It's weird to claim "irredeemable" as a badge if you aren't also claiming one of those other things as a badge.
  - hga 10y ago
    As the Left defines them, I am every one of "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic". Although you would think more would realize by now "The Race Card is Maxed Out": http://www.cc.com/video-clips/m0pvy5/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-race-card-is-maxed-out http://www.cc.com/video-clips/m0pvy5/the-daily-show-with-jon...
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      Could you maybe spell out what you believe the left believes then?
      - hga 10y ago
        At the base, in the perfectibility of man, as I discussed elsewhere in this subthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13055322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13055322 Pretty much everything flows from that.
        maxerickson 10y ago
        No, I mean the specific belief the left would use to decide on each label.
        hga 10y ago
        No, I can't really tell you, it's all in my view at this point just whatever comes handy to declare your enemy as being doubleplusungood and beyond the pale. To take the best personal example I have, in my lifetime, since I became politically and socially aware in the very early '70s, "racist" meant something, something effectively concrete, something real and observable. Now can mean something as anodyne as disagreeing with an opinion or position of Obama's.
        maxerickson 10y ago
        No, I can't really tell you, it's all in my view at this point just whatever comes handy to declare your enemy as being doubleplusungood and beyond the pale. This is not an accurate understanding. But it is a useful point for the conversation to reach. If you are not willing to evaluate the accuracy of that belief, you also won't give consideration to other arguments that contradict it.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  >To finish, with you being a Jew, "What you mean 'we,' kemosabe?" You're very much correct to weasel word "kinda-technically-white". I like how you try to blame the Holocaust on the Left, and then admit that you're an alt-right neo-Nazi who fully intends that Jews be excluded if not eliminated from society.
  - hga 10y ago
    Alt Right, yes, "neo-Nazi" member of it, AKA of the Alt White, no, and I challenge you to show where I said I was that. Not entirely enthused about Jews != "neo-Nazi", outside of fever swamps like the ADL. As for blaming the Holocaust on the Left, it's right there on the f+++ing label, and bald assertions will never convince us that National Socialism was not a part of the Left like International Socialism is. Or that the Left wasn't responsible for the majority of the 20th Century's genocides. Hmmm, were the Young Turks of the Left? On the other hand, while Imperial Japan was collectivist (which was sort of baked in the pie from ~1600 or so anyway), it wasn't of the Leftist flavor. But, yes, to the extent the inchoate Alt Right has a position on it, one of them is that Jews are to be "excluded if not eliminated from society", as in all societies that are not Israel. You've got your own homeland now, which we of the Alt West fully support, relocate yourself there. Specifically "diversity + proximity = war", and we want to avoid "war" such as it is or will be.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      Yeah, if you want to convince people you aren't an anti-Semite and neo-nazi, calling the ADL a "fever swamp" without some substantial supporting argument probably isn't the best place to start. Of course, following that up with calling for the mass exclusion of Jews from all societies other than that of the State of Israel is not helpful, either. And there'd be more consistency to your argument there if you argued that non-Jewish Whites should be, similarly, excluded from all societies other than those of the European continent.
      - hga 10y ago
        Their freak-out and blatant lying WRT to Bannon's appointment, which I admittedly didn't cite here, is quite enough for current evidence (but this had in general been noted earlier): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13054973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13054973 And that's not even going into any detail about how they misportray Breitbart.com. Nor would I ever submit to allowing a single organization made out of fallible human beings as the sole arbitrator of who's neo-Nazi or not in this country. And I though the way this works is that if you make a side point without supplying fully footnoted evidence, you get challenged on it, not presumed guilty before having a chance to answer. You may not view this Alt Right position as "helpful", but We Don't Care. As Jews are starting to find out, unfortunately largely on the Left and WRT to Israel's right to existence (and note how much BDS sounds like a mental illness than a movement's acronym), the Holocaust Card is also Maxed Out, and they most certainly don't care. For that matter, you don't even have to go very many generations beyond mine for the Holocaust to be another footnote in history, just one of the many genocides of the 20th Century, instead of a formative part of ... the Zeitgeist? (Not sure what word to use here, and a German one is ... subpar.) As for your last point, there's no end to that rabbit hole, i.e. what about the Celts who used to occupy much of the European continent? And I'm not up on my history of this sort of thing, but who did they replace? And what about the poor Neanderthals, who only live in the DNA of some of us? That operationally about the worst issue with the Left, they have no limiting principles, there is never a point where "enough" has been reached.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > You're welcome to square Hillary calling me "irredeemable" with the Left's treatment of such people, the National Socialist German Workers' Party providing just one particularly relevant example to your and my discussion here. The NSDAP isn't an example of the "left" (they copied the name of an earlier Austrian political party, whose basic platform they adapted as their public platform, removing all the remotely leftist planks and adding new exclusionary nationalist ones.) Also, it's kind of odd that you'd bring them up as a negative example, since the same kind of exclusionary deportationist policy you advocate for Jews is what they publicly advocated and practiced, I initially focusing on excluding, before progressing to the other branch of the "exclude or eliminate" that you have endorsed. You may not identify as a neo-Nazi or White Nationalist and may have a deep aversion to that label, but the policies you enthusiastically embrace are the definitive core of White Nationalism and very hard to distinguish from the substance of neo-Nazi belief.

hga 10y ago

Also, as a Jew, welcome to being a minority: you'll live. That wasn't true for 5-6 million of your minority in WWII.... You're welcome to square Hillary calling me "irredeemable" with the Left's treatment of such people, the National Socialist German Workers' Party providing just one particularly relevant example to your and my discussion here. As for "guilty", white guilt is a thing that goes way beyond "conspiracy websites" or "idiotic Twitter feeds": https://www.google.com/search?q=white+guilt https://www.google.com/search?q=white+guilt To finish, with you being a Jew, "What you mean 'we,' kemosabe?" You're very much correct to weasel word "kinda-technically-white".

maxerickson 10y ago
Clinton's remarks did not reflect well upon her and were revealing about her attitude towards a large number of people. That said, her meaning was not "Trump Supporter"->"irredeemable", it was "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic"->"irredeemable". It's weird to claim "irredeemable" as a badge if you aren't also claiming one of those other things as a badge.
- hga 10y ago
  As the Left defines them, I am every one of "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic". Although you would think more would realize by now "The Race Card is Maxed Out": http://www.cc.com/video-clips/m0pvy5/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-race-card-is-maxed-out http://www.cc.com/video-clips/m0pvy5/the-daily-show-with-jon...
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    Could you maybe spell out what you believe the left believes then?
    - hga 10y ago
      At the base, in the perfectibility of man, as I discussed elsewhere in this subthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13055322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13055322 Pretty much everything flows from that.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        No, I mean the specific belief the left would use to decide on each label.
        hga 10y ago
        No, I can't really tell you, it's all in my view at this point just whatever comes handy to declare your enemy as being doubleplusungood and beyond the pale. To take the best personal example I have, in my lifetime, since I became politically and socially aware in the very early '70s, "racist" meant something, something effectively concrete, something real and observable. Now can mean something as anodyne as disagreeing with an opinion or position of Obama's.
        maxerickson 10y ago
        No, I can't really tell you, it's all in my view at this point just whatever comes handy to declare your enemy as being doubleplusungood and beyond the pale. This is not an accurate understanding. But it is a useful point for the conversation to reach. If you are not willing to evaluate the accuracy of that belief, you also won't give consideration to other arguments that contradict it.
eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>To finish, with you being a Jew, "What you mean 'we,' kemosabe?" You're very much correct to weasel word "kinda-technically-white". I like how you try to blame the Holocaust on the Left, and then admit that you're an alt-right neo-Nazi who fully intends that Jews be excluded if not eliminated from society.
- hga 10y ago
  Alt Right, yes, "neo-Nazi" member of it, AKA of the Alt White, no, and I challenge you to show where I said I was that. Not entirely enthused about Jews != "neo-Nazi", outside of fever swamps like the ADL. As for blaming the Holocaust on the Left, it's right there on the f+++ing label, and bald assertions will never convince us that National Socialism was not a part of the Left like International Socialism is. Or that the Left wasn't responsible for the majority of the 20th Century's genocides. Hmmm, were the Young Turks of the Left? On the other hand, while Imperial Japan was collectivist (which was sort of baked in the pie from ~1600 or so anyway), it wasn't of the Leftist flavor. But, yes, to the extent the inchoate Alt Right has a position on it, one of them is that Jews are to be "excluded if not eliminated from society", as in all societies that are not Israel. You've got your own homeland now, which we of the Alt West fully support, relocate yourself there. Specifically "diversity + proximity = war", and we want to avoid "war" such as it is or will be.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    Yeah, if you want to convince people you aren't an anti-Semite and neo-nazi, calling the ADL a "fever swamp" without some substantial supporting argument probably isn't the best place to start. Of course, following that up with calling for the mass exclusion of Jews from all societies other than that of the State of Israel is not helpful, either. And there'd be more consistency to your argument there if you argued that non-Jewish Whites should be, similarly, excluded from all societies other than those of the European continent.
    - hga 10y ago
      Their freak-out and blatant lying WRT to Bannon's appointment, which I admittedly didn't cite here, is quite enough for current evidence (but this had in general been noted earlier): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13054973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13054973 And that's not even going into any detail about how they misportray Breitbart.com. Nor would I ever submit to allowing a single organization made out of fallible human beings as the sole arbitrator of who's neo-Nazi or not in this country. And I though the way this works is that if you make a side point without supplying fully footnoted evidence, you get challenged on it, not presumed guilty before having a chance to answer. You may not view this Alt Right position as "helpful", but We Don't Care. As Jews are starting to find out, unfortunately largely on the Left and WRT to Israel's right to existence (and note how much BDS sounds like a mental illness than a movement's acronym), the Holocaust Card is also Maxed Out, and they most certainly don't care. For that matter, you don't even have to go very many generations beyond mine for the Holocaust to be another footnote in history, just one of the many genocides of the 20th Century, instead of a formative part of ... the Zeitgeist? (Not sure what word to use here, and a German one is ... subpar.) As for your last point, there's no end to that rabbit hole, i.e. what about the Celts who used to occupy much of the European continent? And I'm not up on my history of this sort of thing, but who did they replace? And what about the poor Neanderthals, who only live in the DNA of some of us? That operationally about the worst issue with the Left, they have no limiting principles, there is never a point where "enough" has been reached.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> You're welcome to square Hillary calling me "irredeemable" with the Left's treatment of such people, the National Socialist German Workers' Party providing just one particularly relevant example to your and my discussion here. The NSDAP isn't an example of the "left" (they copied the name of an earlier Austrian political party, whose basic platform they adapted as their public platform, removing all the remotely leftist planks and adding new exclusionary nationalist ones.) Also, it's kind of odd that you'd bring them up as a negative example, since the same kind of exclusionary deportationist policy you advocate for Jews is what they publicly advocated and practiced, I initially focusing on excluding, before progressing to the other branch of the "exclude or eliminate" that you have endorsed. You may not identify as a neo-Nazi or White Nationalist and may have a deep aversion to that label, but the policies you enthusiastically embrace are the definitive core of White Nationalism and very hard to distinguish from the substance of neo-Nazi belief.