4 ms·

If the handle of the hammer you're holding was a chainsaw that randomly turns on and off. And also sometimes explodes killing your entire family and pet dog. Do

If the handle of the hammer you're holding was a chainsaw that randomly turns on and off. And also sometimes explodes killing your entire family and pet dog. Don't blame the explodey-chainsaw-hammer, it's just a tool. Okay an idiotically dangerous too that nobody in their right mind should use, but still just a tool.

geezerjay 10y ago
> If the handle of the hammer you're holding was a chainsaw Except it isn't. It's just a hammer, with a handle of a hammer. > And also sometimes explodes killing Except it doesn't. At best, some people are reckless and end up causing problems due to their recklessness. Enough with these silly hyperboles. Cushioned environments lead to less problems.
quickben 10y ago
Eh, no need to overreact that much. Look. Hardware is hardware, and this is where tire meets the road so people can lay the foundation for the upper levels. It is what it is. It's not user friendly because hardware just isn't, low levels aren't, and it has to just perform. > 'idiotically dangerous' Well, I don't want to sound harsh, but nobody forces anybody to do systems programming if they perceive C as such. There is JavaScript, python and plethora of other safe and cozy languages, but: the low level has to be done.
- grabcocque 10y ago
  Oh, I see it's not that there's such a thing as a bad tool, or that C is unsafe. Simply most of us don't have your towering intellect to appreciate it. Got it.
  - quickben 10y ago
    Maybe I was too harsh, I apologize. But c is far less dangerous than a kitchen knife. Tools are tools, some are used with a great amount of care: jackhammers, routers, compression hammers, chainsaws etc. Heck: driving a vehicle is probably the single most dangerous activity we do on a daily basis.
- yxhuvud 10y ago
  Hardware is hardware, but C is not. People need to stop pretending that it is.
- nurettin 10y ago
  Look at all his comments in this thread. He is just fishing for an argument/attention.
chrisd1100 10y ago
C is utterly predictable. Maybe you're the exploding chainsaw in this metaphor.
- adamnemecek 10y ago
  How detailed is your knowledge of undefined behavior?
  - module0000 10y ago
    We know when undefined behavior will occur(the specs are written very clearly), but not what will happen when it occurs. Our job as competent C programmers is to avoid undefined behavior. C isn't hard(perhaps tedious to do correctly) - it does exactly what you tell it to.
    - adrianN 10y ago
      You'd be hard pressed to find a non-trivial C program that doesn't contain any undefined behavior.
      - sidlls 10y ago
        Depends on what you mean by "non-trivial," I should think.
    - pcwalton 10y ago
      > it does exactly what you tell it to. This is a tautology. What do you expect to happen on signed overflow?
    - mathw 10y ago
      It does, but it's unnecessarily difficult to keep track of all the places undefined behaviour might occur and make sure you don't step into any of them under any conditions ever. We shouldn't have to work like this anymore. C's been an amazing language, but it's getting time to gently, respectfully, move on. There's active and interesting development in alternatives which attempt to retain C's primary advantages while also allowing the compiler to keep you out of trouble as much as possible. We have hugely powerful computers available to use as developers. We can contemplate designing and compiling languages with a complexity which would have completely defeated the systems available when C was developed. Why shouldn't we use some of that power to make our lives easier?
digler999 10y ago
> sometimes explodes thought you were talking about java bloatware for a second. Oh your OS doesn't have 1.2gb for HelloWorld.class? Enjoy your OutOfMemoryException!

geezerjay 10y ago

> If the handle of the hammer you're holding was a chainsaw Except it isn't. It's just a hammer, with a handle of a hammer. > And also sometimes explodes killing Except it doesn't. At best, some people are reckless and end up causing problems due to their recklessness. Enough with these silly hyperboles. Cushioned environments lead to less problems.

quickben 10y ago

Eh, no need to overreact that much. Look. Hardware is hardware, and this is where tire meets the road so people can lay the foundation for the upper levels. It is what it is. It's not user friendly because hardware just isn't, low levels aren't, and it has to just perform. > 'idiotically dangerous' Well, I don't want to sound harsh, but nobody forces anybody to do systems programming if they perceive C as such. There is JavaScript, python and plethora of other safe and cozy languages, but: the low level has to be done.

grabcocque 10y ago
Oh, I see it's not that there's such a thing as a bad tool, or that C is unsafe. Simply most of us don't have your towering intellect to appreciate it. Got it.
- quickben 10y ago
  Maybe I was too harsh, I apologize. But c is far less dangerous than a kitchen knife. Tools are tools, some are used with a great amount of care: jackhammers, routers, compression hammers, chainsaws etc. Heck: driving a vehicle is probably the single most dangerous activity we do on a daily basis.
yxhuvud 10y ago
Hardware is hardware, but C is not. People need to stop pretending that it is.
nurettin 10y ago
Look at all his comments in this thread. He is just fishing for an argument/attention.

chrisd1100 10y ago

C is utterly predictable. Maybe you're the exploding chainsaw in this metaphor.

adamnemecek 10y ago
How detailed is your knowledge of undefined behavior?
- module0000 10y ago
  We know when undefined behavior will occur(the specs are written very clearly), but not what will happen when it occurs. Our job as competent C programmers is to avoid undefined behavior. C isn't hard(perhaps tedious to do correctly) - it does exactly what you tell it to.
  - adrianN 10y ago
    You'd be hard pressed to find a non-trivial C program that doesn't contain any undefined behavior.
    - sidlls 10y ago
      Depends on what you mean by "non-trivial," I should think.
  - pcwalton 10y ago
    > it does exactly what you tell it to. This is a tautology. What do you expect to happen on signed overflow?
  - mathw 10y ago
    It does, but it's unnecessarily difficult to keep track of all the places undefined behaviour might occur and make sure you don't step into any of them under any conditions ever. We shouldn't have to work like this anymore. C's been an amazing language, but it's getting time to gently, respectfully, move on. There's active and interesting development in alternatives which attempt to retain C's primary advantages while also allowing the compiler to keep you out of trouble as much as possible. We have hugely powerful computers available to use as developers. We can contemplate designing and compiling languages with a complexity which would have completely defeated the systems available when C was developed. Why shouldn't we use some of that power to make our lives easier?

digler999 10y ago

> sometimes explodes thought you were talking about java bloatware for a second. Oh your OS doesn't have 1.2gb for HelloWorld.class? Enjoy your OutOfMemoryException!