8 ms·

"In a fantasy world, Apple produces an Ax-based Mac" Combining the iPad and Macbook is equivalent to rolling the iPod into the iPhone. I also have a Macbook a

by anindha 10y ago

"In a fantasy world, Apple produces an Ax-based Mac" Combining the iPad and Macbook is equivalent to rolling the iPod into the iPhone. I also have a Macbook and its the perfect computer for normal laptop tasks. I am surprised by how many people don't know this exists. "But what would an Ax Mac mean in the real world, to software developers?" There are lots of companies producing iOS and Mac apps. It is going to be easier than porting programs from Windows to Mac.

redial 10y ago
> I also have a Macbook and its the perfect computer for normal laptop tasks. I am surprised by how many people don't know this exists. They know it exists, they also know is $1300 and up.
- op00to 10y ago
  The MacBook Air is $999, with plenty of discounts to be found. Also a nearly perfect computer for the vast majority of use cases. Any cheaper, and you're into disposable shittop range.
  - rz2k 10y ago
    The list of Kaby Lake laptops of all sizes is starting to get pretty long[1], with more and more of them having better performance, battery life, weight and screen resolution than the MacBook Air for less than $1000 if you're willing to deal with Windows[2]. I think Apple will have something new in the same space as the Air or non-Pro MacBook soon, but the options aren't great right now. [1] http://www.ultrabookreview.com/11638-intel-kabylake/ http://www.ultrabookreview.com/11638-intel-kabylake/ [2] Driver support probably isn't great for Linux yet.
    - op00to 10y ago
      Will these laptops last 3+ years? Anything I've bought sub $1k fell apart or failed in some expensive way within 18 months.
      - rz2k 10y ago
        No idea. I occasionally use a ten year old ThinkPad T60 that runs Linux Mint 18 (2016) MATE okay. I'm pretty sure modern ThinkPads are not as durable. The Dell XPS might be a lot better than Dell laptops of the past, though.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
simonh 10y ago
> Combining the iPad and Macbook is equivalent to rolling the iPod into the iPhone. It really isn't, Apple is right that the interaction models are too different. The argument Microsoft make that you can have your cake and eat it, have a device that's an ideal tablet and an ideal laptop, has failed. The compromises are too great. Desktop software has interaction targets that are too small for a touch interface and the mouse interaction model doesn't map across to touch. But supporting both touch apps and desktop apps on the same device is a non starter. You can't require all your app developers to implement two different UIs every time. The iPad Pro optional keyboard doesn't prove anything in this regard. It's just a dedicated text input device, not an alernate primary interaction mode. Note that MS and Apple approach this from opposite directions. The MS solution is primarily a keyboard interface with touch as an ancillary mode. The iPad Pro is primarily a touch device with an ancillary keyboard mode. But desktop software on the Surface is next to unusable in tablet mode. Meanwhile iPad software is perfectly usable with the keyboard attached. But it achieves this by decidedly not taking full advantage of the horizontal interface. There is no trackpad on the iPad Pro keyboard and no mouse support. For iPad software, they serve no purpose. That's why even with keyboard attached the iPad is decidedly not a converged device. The keyboard is not a primary interface, it's really just a text input peripheral with some convenience UI interaction options. There will never be iPad software that requires the physical keyboard.
- dfcowell 10y ago
  The point isn't that you can use all of your desktop apps on a touchscreen, it's that the device can adapt to context. I'll never use Affinity Designer on my Surface without it either plugged in to my 34" display or, at a stretch, the Type Cover. The UI doesn't work for touch input. Doesn't matter. I likewise will probably never use Drawboard PDF with a keyboard and mouse. Again, doesn't matter. It's so quick to transition from touch/pen to keyboard/mouse that it's a nonissue. You can always use the input method most suited to the task at hand.
  - simonh 10y ago
    The only world in which the 'device adapts to me' model works is where the software adapts as well. If I have software that only works well in tablet mode and other software that only works well in laptop mode, I'm the one who has to do all the adapting to switch between them. In all Honesty, I'd rather carry two different devices completely optimised for the different interaction models than deal with all the compromises of a toasterfridge solution.
gutnor 10y ago
> There are lots of companies producing iOS and Mac apps. It is going to be easier than porting programs from Windows to Mac. Most of the application have server-side components too and developers work on both side. Currently that means you can setup a develop with a MBP and he is setup. With an Ax MBP, that's no longer the case. Will they switch to another architecture keeping the same weaknesses as the current one ? What would be the point ? Apple is very opinionated with their stuff so can you be sure you will be able to run software like java ? That does not sound very likely. So yes, there are plenty of companies that will port the software. However, developers themselves will need to have their needs fulfilled by another company. That removes basically the last set of free professional endorsement for the platform and set it on equal footing with Google and Microsoft. I guess that's good for the competition.
- majewsky 10y ago
  What makes you think that the server-side components are going to be incompatible with Ax MBPs? Most open-source software runs just fine on ARM, and I would expect proprietary developers to quickly follow suit if Apple pushes Ax MBPs.
  - gutnor 10y ago
    There is an enormous amount of assumption about what would the Ax MBP look like. People assume the current MBP with a different chipset. That's however not the trend that Apple is currently following. For example it does not seem likely you would be able to run the software you want on it, especially not VM or Java or server side component. Think of it - if you prevent that, you solve the virus and malware problem and that's something that people are actually quite ok with in their iPad and iPhone. It is just such a win for regular people that it must be what Apple would be going for. Maybe Apple will do a special "Developer" application that comes with a developer friendly package, tied to your AppDeveloper account. It will probably allows you to do most of your development, but not the complete freedom you currently have on the MBP. (and it will probably be nice, as you as you develop in the Apple ecosystem for the Apple ecosystem) That's IMO the best case scenario. Most likely they will simply drop the developer entirely. Sure they will keep some way of coding in a restricted fashion, but a professional that does not have the same requirement as a hobbyist home ios developer will find nothing in Apple product line. ( you can see hint of that: you would need plenty of different MBP configuration just to please a handful of people, while the market reality is that the new MBP is selling like hot cakes. Developer are just too difficult to please to be worthwhile ) That's the meaning of post-PC world. People using a PC will be specialist, there are going to be specialist brand to cater to their need. That's not going to come from a consumer brand like Apple.

by anindha 10y ago

redial 10y ago

> I also have a Macbook and its the perfect computer for normal laptop tasks. I am surprised by how many people don't know this exists. They know it exists, they also know is $1300 and up.

op00to 10y ago
The MacBook Air is $999, with plenty of discounts to be found. Also a nearly perfect computer for the vast majority of use cases. Any cheaper, and you're into disposable shittop range.
- rz2k 10y ago
  The list of Kaby Lake laptops of all sizes is starting to get pretty long[1], with more and more of them having better performance, battery life, weight and screen resolution than the MacBook Air for less than $1000 if you're willing to deal with Windows[2]. I think Apple will have something new in the same space as the Air or non-Pro MacBook soon, but the options aren't great right now. [1] http://www.ultrabookreview.com/11638-intel-kabylake/ http://www.ultrabookreview.com/11638-intel-kabylake/ [2] Driver support probably isn't great for Linux yet.
  - op00to 10y ago
    Will these laptops last 3+ years? Anything I've bought sub $1k fell apart or failed in some expensive way within 18 months.
    - rz2k 10y ago
      No idea. I occasionally use a ten year old ThinkPad T60 that runs Linux Mint 18 (2016) MATE okay. I'm pretty sure modern ThinkPads are not as durable. The Dell XPS might be a lot better than Dell laptops of the past, though.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

simonh 10y ago

> Combining the iPad and Macbook is equivalent to rolling the iPod into the iPhone. It really isn't, Apple is right that the interaction models are too different. The argument Microsoft make that you can have your cake and eat it, have a device that's an ideal tablet and an ideal laptop, has failed. The compromises are too great. Desktop software has interaction targets that are too small for a touch interface and the mouse interaction model doesn't map across to touch. But supporting both touch apps and desktop apps on the same device is a non starter. You can't require all your app developers to implement two different UIs every time. The iPad Pro optional keyboard doesn't prove anything in this regard. It's just a dedicated text input device, not an alernate primary interaction mode. Note that MS and Apple approach this from opposite directions. The MS solution is primarily a keyboard interface with touch as an ancillary mode. The iPad Pro is primarily a touch device with an ancillary keyboard mode. But desktop software on the Surface is next to unusable in tablet mode. Meanwhile iPad software is perfectly usable with the keyboard attached. But it achieves this by decidedly not taking full advantage of the horizontal interface. There is no trackpad on the iPad Pro keyboard and no mouse support. For iPad software, they serve no purpose. That's why even with keyboard attached the iPad is decidedly not a converged device. The keyboard is not a primary interface, it's really just a text input peripheral with some convenience UI interaction options. There will never be iPad software that requires the physical keyboard.

dfcowell 10y ago
The point isn't that you can use all of your desktop apps on a touchscreen, it's that the device can adapt to context. I'll never use Affinity Designer on my Surface without it either plugged in to my 34" display or, at a stretch, the Type Cover. The UI doesn't work for touch input. Doesn't matter. I likewise will probably never use Drawboard PDF with a keyboard and mouse. Again, doesn't matter. It's so quick to transition from touch/pen to keyboard/mouse that it's a nonissue. You can always use the input method most suited to the task at hand.
- simonh 10y ago
  The only world in which the 'device adapts to me' model works is where the software adapts as well. If I have software that only works well in tablet mode and other software that only works well in laptop mode, I'm the one who has to do all the adapting to switch between them. In all Honesty, I'd rather carry two different devices completely optimised for the different interaction models than deal with all the compromises of a toasterfridge solution.

gutnor 10y ago

> There are lots of companies producing iOS and Mac apps. It is going to be easier than porting programs from Windows to Mac. Most of the application have server-side components too and developers work on both side. Currently that means you can setup a develop with a MBP and he is setup. With an Ax MBP, that's no longer the case. Will they switch to another architecture keeping the same weaknesses as the current one ? What would be the point ? Apple is very opinionated with their stuff so can you be sure you will be able to run software like java ? That does not sound very likely. So yes, there are plenty of companies that will port the software. However, developers themselves will need to have their needs fulfilled by another company. That removes basically the last set of free professional endorsement for the platform and set it on equal footing with Google and Microsoft. I guess that's good for the competition.

majewsky 10y ago
What makes you think that the server-side components are going to be incompatible with Ax MBPs? Most open-source software runs just fine on ARM, and I would expect proprietary developers to quickly follow suit if Apple pushes Ax MBPs.
- gutnor 10y ago
  There is an enormous amount of assumption about what would the Ax MBP look like. People assume the current MBP with a different chipset. That's however not the trend that Apple is currently following. For example it does not seem likely you would be able to run the software you want on it, especially not VM or Java or server side component. Think of it - if you prevent that, you solve the virus and malware problem and that's something that people are actually quite ok with in their iPad and iPhone. It is just such a win for regular people that it must be what Apple would be going for. Maybe Apple will do a special "Developer" application that comes with a developer friendly package, tied to your AppDeveloper account. It will probably allows you to do most of your development, but not the complete freedom you currently have on the MBP. (and it will probably be nice, as you as you develop in the Apple ecosystem for the Apple ecosystem) That's IMO the best case scenario. Most likely they will simply drop the developer entirely. Sure they will keep some way of coding in a restricted fashion, but a professional that does not have the same requirement as a hobbyist home ios developer will find nothing in Apple product line. ( you can see hint of that: you would need plenty of different MBP configuration just to please a handful of people, while the market reality is that the new MBP is selling like hot cakes. Developer are just too difficult to please to be worthwhile ) That's the meaning of post-PC world. People using a PC will be specialist, there are going to be specialist brand to cater to their need. That's not going to come from a consumer brand like Apple.