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>Changing the human nature however, is not trivial by any measure... We don't have to change human nature. We just need to change human behaviour. Changing hu

>Changing the human nature however, is not trivial by any measure... We don't have to change human nature. We just need to change human behaviour. Changing human behaviour is very easy. Just replace every Ad currently in use with an eco friendly message. Make eco damaging behaviours "uncool" and there goes our young generations eco damaging behaviours. Facebook and google can do this in an year, if they put their minds to it...

etangent 10y ago
> Make eco damaging behaviours "uncool" As 2016 had shown, we're well past the point where it was possible for a centralized (or even moderately stratified) entity to declare certain behaviors "uncool". Changing human culture without changing human nature introduces huge arbitrage opportunities for malicious actors and demagogues and increases overall existential risk.
- babyrainbow 10y ago
  >s 2016 had shown, we're well past the point where it was possible for a centralized (or even moderately stratified) entity to declare certain behaviors "uncool". Which event has shown? > Changing human culture without changing human nature introduces huge arbitrage opportunitie... What has "culture" to do with this? Behaviour is not the same as culture. Some one might have a habit of throwing garbage on the roads/public places. That is not his culture, that is behaviour, and is easily changed once he find himself in a place where that behaviour is frowned upon. That is what I am talking about. It is easy to accomplish, but it is not going to happen. Because that means less consumption, and everything about todays world is about pushing towards more and more consumption. Imagine the impossibility of seeing a billboard that says "Do you really need that new SUV?".
  - iainmerrick 10y ago
    >s 2016 had shown, we're well past the point where it was possible for a centralized (or even moderately stratified) entity to declare certain behaviors "uncool". Which event has shown? I imagine they're talking about the recent US election, for one. For pretty much the whole campaign, including primaries, everyone pointed out all the ways in which Trump was a terrible, completely unsuitable candidate, and he won anyway.
    - babyrainbow 10y ago
      I guessed that much. But that does not prove anything. US election cannot be compared to this. That is completely ridiculous. Electing your leader is a very subjective, personal thing. Throwing your garbage out and driving an SUV is not. People does not actually care about doing any of those things. They care about fitting in and looking cool. Change that and you can change everything.
  - etangent 10y ago
    > What has "culture" to do with this? Behaviour is not the same as culture. Correct, but the comment I made about culture applies doubly so to behavior. Yes, you can change behavior. Yes, you can make people ashamed of doing X. That is, until certain Mr. Y comes along and shows them how to feel better about themselves, how to improve their self-esteem and show the world a middle finger---by doing precisely X. You will be completely powerless to stop Mr. Y. Powerless. You will be laughed at, and the fingers you thought would point at them will turn upon you. > That is what I am talking about. It is easy to accomplish, but it is not going to happen. Because that means less consumption Oh sweet naive innocent child. You think consumerist capitalism is to blame. You're almost right... Almost.
    - babyrainbow 10y ago
      >That is, until certain Mr. Y comes along and shows them how to feel better about themselves, how to improve their self-esteem and show the world a middle finger---by doing precisely X. Exactly. Thanks for proving my point. >Oh sweet naive innocent child. You think consumerist capitalism is to blame. You're almost right... Almost. I think you give me too much credit. My comment didn't not imply anything that deep.

etangent 10y ago

> Make eco damaging behaviours "uncool" As 2016 had shown, we're well past the point where it was possible for a centralized (or even moderately stratified) entity to declare certain behaviors "uncool". Changing human culture without changing human nature introduces huge arbitrage opportunities for malicious actors and demagogues and increases overall existential risk.

babyrainbow 10y ago
>s 2016 had shown, we're well past the point where it was possible for a centralized (or even moderately stratified) entity to declare certain behaviors "uncool". Which event has shown? > Changing human culture without changing human nature introduces huge arbitrage opportunitie... What has "culture" to do with this? Behaviour is not the same as culture. Some one might have a habit of throwing garbage on the roads/public places. That is not his culture, that is behaviour, and is easily changed once he find himself in a place where that behaviour is frowned upon. That is what I am talking about. It is easy to accomplish, but it is not going to happen. Because that means less consumption, and everything about todays world is about pushing towards more and more consumption. Imagine the impossibility of seeing a billboard that says "Do you really need that new SUV?".
- iainmerrick 10y ago
  >s 2016 had shown, we're well past the point where it was possible for a centralized (or even moderately stratified) entity to declare certain behaviors "uncool". Which event has shown? I imagine they're talking about the recent US election, for one. For pretty much the whole campaign, including primaries, everyone pointed out all the ways in which Trump was a terrible, completely unsuitable candidate, and he won anyway.
  - babyrainbow 10y ago
    I guessed that much. But that does not prove anything. US election cannot be compared to this. That is completely ridiculous. Electing your leader is a very subjective, personal thing. Throwing your garbage out and driving an SUV is not. People does not actually care about doing any of those things. They care about fitting in and looking cool. Change that and you can change everything.
- etangent 10y ago
  > What has "culture" to do with this? Behaviour is not the same as culture. Correct, but the comment I made about culture applies doubly so to behavior. Yes, you can change behavior. Yes, you can make people ashamed of doing X. That is, until certain Mr. Y comes along and shows them how to feel better about themselves, how to improve their self-esteem and show the world a middle finger---by doing precisely X. You will be completely powerless to stop Mr. Y. Powerless. You will be laughed at, and the fingers you thought would point at them will turn upon you. > That is what I am talking about. It is easy to accomplish, but it is not going to happen. Because that means less consumption Oh sweet naive innocent child. You think consumerist capitalism is to blame. You're almost right... Almost.
  - babyrainbow 10y ago
    >That is, until certain Mr. Y comes along and shows them how to feel better about themselves, how to improve their self-esteem and show the world a middle finger---by doing precisely X. Exactly. Thanks for proving my point. >Oh sweet naive innocent child. You think consumerist capitalism is to blame. You're almost right... Almost. I think you give me too much credit. My comment didn't not imply anything that deep.