3 ms·

How about forcing you to type the password, behind a Mantle of Power if need be, such that they can decrypt the disk, without ever knowing the password?

dTal 10y ago
As I understand it, in the US at least this is indeed the line. Same goes for combination vs keyed locks: you can't be forced to self-incriminate by sharing information, but you can be held in contempt for withholding evidence. I imagine it gets murky around things like SSH keys, which are technically a kind of password, but too big for a human to remember - and therefore must be "instantiated" in a physical device somewhere.
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  > I imagine it gets murky around things like SSH keys, which are technically a kind of password, but too big for a human to remember - and therefore must be "instantiated" in a physical device somewhere. A likely interpretation might be: an SSH key without a keyphrase is like a physical key, and you must hand it over, while a key with a keyphrase is like a combination lock, where you must hand it over but you are not required to state the keyphrase.
- pyromine 10y ago
  Simple password that you can remember encrypting your SSH key, know they can't compel you to give the password unlocking the key.
Nrsolis 10y ago
The way the law works here in the USA is that anything that requires you to disclose the contents of your mind (a passphrase, an explanation of where you were, your name) cannot be compelled because the fifth amendment precludes the use of that information to convict you. Things that you ARE (such as fingerprints, DNA, hair color, photo, sample) can be compelled by a court order (e.g. a warrant) because they aren't the contents of your mind but physical aspects of your existence. That's why the use of a strong passphrase that isn't tied to a biometric is important if you're worried about this sort of thing.
- Jarwain 10y ago
  Can't the police/a warrant compel you to open a combination safe? That would be a case of you disclosing a passphrase/something in your mind, but contrary to your assertion.
  - Nrsolis 10y ago
    Nope. They can certainly open the safe. They just can't compel you to TESTIFY to something. The contents of your mind are sacrosanct. If they can compel you to divulge a combination, then they can also discern that you had access to that safe by virtue of possession of the combination. Not allowed by our laws.

dTal 10y ago

As I understand it, in the US at least this is indeed the line. Same goes for combination vs keyed locks: you can't be forced to self-incriminate by sharing information, but you can be held in contempt for withholding evidence. I imagine it gets murky around things like SSH keys, which are technically a kind of password, but too big for a human to remember - and therefore must be "instantiated" in a physical device somewhere.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
> I imagine it gets murky around things like SSH keys, which are technically a kind of password, but too big for a human to remember - and therefore must be "instantiated" in a physical device somewhere. A likely interpretation might be: an SSH key without a keyphrase is like a physical key, and you must hand it over, while a key with a keyphrase is like a combination lock, where you must hand it over but you are not required to state the keyphrase.
pyromine 10y ago
Simple password that you can remember encrypting your SSH key, know they can't compel you to give the password unlocking the key.

Nrsolis 10y ago

The way the law works here in the USA is that anything that requires you to disclose the contents of your mind (a passphrase, an explanation of where you were, your name) cannot be compelled because the fifth amendment precludes the use of that information to convict you. Things that you ARE (such as fingerprints, DNA, hair color, photo, sample) can be compelled by a court order (e.g. a warrant) because they aren't the contents of your mind but physical aspects of your existence. That's why the use of a strong passphrase that isn't tied to a biometric is important if you're worried about this sort of thing.

Jarwain 10y ago
Can't the police/a warrant compel you to open a combination safe? That would be a case of you disclosing a passphrase/something in your mind, but contrary to your assertion.
- Nrsolis 10y ago
  Nope. They can certainly open the safe. They just can't compel you to TESTIFY to something. The contents of your mind are sacrosanct. If they can compel you to divulge a combination, then they can also discern that you had access to that safe by virtue of possession of the combination. Not allowed by our laws.