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I would add that there is poor, and inconsequential information directed at people on how to mitigate the causes of climate change. For instance, I've seen in

I would add that there is poor, and inconsequential information directed at people on how to mitigate the causes of climate change. For instance, I've seen in my surroundings a disproportionate emphasis on recycling. Whatever happened to reducing and re-using? While recycling reduces our need to extract more resources, it still requires energy to transport to processing facilities and process. The real issue is not cutting your shower time by 30 seconds, or turning off the tap when you brush your teeth (although both these waste resources). It's the rise of sprawl and the dependence on cars that makes our society unsustainable. Driving a single mile releases roughly 1 pound of CO2 (assuming ~20mpg). Now multiply that by the 25.4 minute commute time [0] and the rising number of cars per household [1] to accommodate our poor suburban designs, and that equals a lot of carbon emissions. But if the American responds to climate change by recycling, they'll be mislead that their efforts are actually helping. They are not. Recycling a Starbucks coffee cup will not cancel out the effect of driving an SUV 5 miles round-trip that you used to get there. What we truly need is effective altruism, and a public service campaign that goes after the top 3 or so most destructive behaviors of Americans. Not whether we can design water bottles that have a "slim cap" design. > Huge quantities of fossil fuels are burned daily just so hundreds of millions of Americans can go back and forth between two points 5 times a week. It doesn't make sense; cars can be useful for certain things, but regular and predictable commutes are best done with public transit. (http://www.treehugger.com/cars/average-commute-times-usa-interactive-map.html http://www.treehugger.com/cars/average-commute-times-usa-int...) [0] https://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-us/embed.html#5.00/42.000/-89.500 https://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-us/embed.html#5.00/42... [1] https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/UJuMkdu2LWC6AavNsVuY-mHHjIE=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3647774/chart_3.0.png https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/UJuMkdu2LWC6AavNsVuY-mHHjIE...

pdonis 10y ago
> regular and predictable commutes are best done with public transit. In places where public transit has dense enough coverage to make commute times reasonable, yes. But that's not most places where Americans are commuting.
- ryhamz 10y ago
  He's not saying the public transit solutions are implemented yet. For that to happen, people would need to re-allocate their funds from buying expensive private cars to a new public transit system.
  - saalweachter 10y ago
    That's only half the problem; you also need to reallocate housing from the diffuse suburban homes suitable for car-life to the concentrated cores of housing around the local stops in your mass transit system. Which is not to say it shouldn't be done, but bootstrapping a mass transit system is a long, slow process that involves throwing away a lot more than our existing cars & highways.
    - pdonis 10y ago
      > you also need to reallocate housing from the diffuse suburban homes suitable for car-life to the concentrated cores of housing around the local stops in your mass transit system What if a significant fraction of the population doesn't want to live in such a concentrated environment?
khedoros1 10y ago
My commute is 12-15 minutes by car and 55 minutes to an hour and a half by bus (assuming the buses were actually on time, which is unrealistic here). Plus either time to make and pack a lunch, or the time to walk to a fast food restaurant near work for lunch. Plus a similar commute time back. It's somewhat faster (but more dangerous) to ride a bicycle. If my goal is a fast, safe commute, I don't have a realistic option besides a car. It's not insurmountable (I'm sure that a better public transportation system could be implemented for more money), but almost everyone will make the same choice that I have until a more practical alternative comes along....but they won't want to pay for that alternative because they aren't using it.
- mjevans 10y ago
  This is where self-driving vehicles (with no human driver) provide a solution. Point to point service with built in ride consolidation (targeted at clustering the start and end points). Plus the self-driving vehicles will eliminate gawker blocks and all of the other idiocy resulting from fallible humans driving.
- Neeek 10y ago
  Get a moped. Safer than your pushie if your lacking the infrastructure, the only reason riding a bike is so dangerous anyway is the amount of cars on the road. Notice that basically all the cars on the road have 1 person and 4 empty seats every morning? You're burning all the fuel to basically move an empty car around, a 50cc moped is burning 36 times less fuel per power stroke than my corolla (ignoring combustion efficiency, I'm sure the car is better but you lose basically all in moving the damn thing). Without the thing being electric it isn't the perfect solution (also can't do highway travel), but I feel like it's something not a lot of people consider for short, city/suburban commuting.
  - ryhamz 10y ago
    While I love mopeds and bought a 1980 vespa grande in college, I would not advise this. As the song goes, "mopeds are always broke, but they easy to fix". A moped WILL break down on you and be underpowered. My grande with a 70cc kit, performance variator and multiple breakdowns tops out around 41mph. If you are not interested in repairing bikes or paying for their repair (if even possible in your city), avoid mopeds. I'd recommend a 125cc+ scooter though. Reliability, fuel efficiency, and a bit more power which can increase safety. They also have more storage. Don't forget to add in the fixed cost of gear!
belorn 10y ago
Just doing some simple estimates on those number, just driving for ~5m will produce more CO2 than those eating a rich-meat diet vs vegetarian diet. 25m commuting vegetarian is several houses worth of meat eaters that take the bike to work. If we were to list what changes one can do in order to save the planet: 1) work at home, 2) bike everywhere that is human possible, 3) take the train in all other situation where possible, 4) eating/recycling/short shower/other minor aspects.

pdonis 10y ago

> regular and predictable commutes are best done with public transit. In places where public transit has dense enough coverage to make commute times reasonable, yes. But that's not most places where Americans are commuting.

ryhamz 10y ago
He's not saying the public transit solutions are implemented yet. For that to happen, people would need to re-allocate their funds from buying expensive private cars to a new public transit system.
- saalweachter 10y ago
  That's only half the problem; you also need to reallocate housing from the diffuse suburban homes suitable for car-life to the concentrated cores of housing around the local stops in your mass transit system. Which is not to say it shouldn't be done, but bootstrapping a mass transit system is a long, slow process that involves throwing away a lot more than our existing cars & highways.
  - pdonis 10y ago
    > you also need to reallocate housing from the diffuse suburban homes suitable for car-life to the concentrated cores of housing around the local stops in your mass transit system What if a significant fraction of the population doesn't want to live in such a concentrated environment?

khedoros1 10y ago

My commute is 12-15 minutes by car and 55 minutes to an hour and a half by bus (assuming the buses were actually on time, which is unrealistic here). Plus either time to make and pack a lunch, or the time to walk to a fast food restaurant near work for lunch. Plus a similar commute time back. It's somewhat faster (but more dangerous) to ride a bicycle. If my goal is a fast, safe commute, I don't have a realistic option besides a car. It's not insurmountable (I'm sure that a better public transportation system could be implemented for more money), but almost everyone will make the same choice that I have until a more practical alternative comes along....but they won't want to pay for that alternative because they aren't using it.

mjevans 10y ago
This is where self-driving vehicles (with no human driver) provide a solution. Point to point service with built in ride consolidation (targeted at clustering the start and end points). Plus the self-driving vehicles will eliminate gawker blocks and all of the other idiocy resulting from fallible humans driving.
Neeek 10y ago
Get a moped. Safer than your pushie if your lacking the infrastructure, the only reason riding a bike is so dangerous anyway is the amount of cars on the road. Notice that basically all the cars on the road have 1 person and 4 empty seats every morning? You're burning all the fuel to basically move an empty car around, a 50cc moped is burning 36 times less fuel per power stroke than my corolla (ignoring combustion efficiency, I'm sure the car is better but you lose basically all in moving the damn thing). Without the thing being electric it isn't the perfect solution (also can't do highway travel), but I feel like it's something not a lot of people consider for short, city/suburban commuting.
- ryhamz 10y ago
  While I love mopeds and bought a 1980 vespa grande in college, I would not advise this. As the song goes, "mopeds are always broke, but they easy to fix". A moped WILL break down on you and be underpowered. My grande with a 70cc kit, performance variator and multiple breakdowns tops out around 41mph. If you are not interested in repairing bikes or paying for their repair (if even possible in your city), avoid mopeds. I'd recommend a 125cc+ scooter though. Reliability, fuel efficiency, and a bit more power which can increase safety. They also have more storage. Don't forget to add in the fixed cost of gear!

belorn 10y ago

Just doing some simple estimates on those number, just driving for ~5m will produce more CO2 than those eating a rich-meat diet vs vegetarian diet. 25m commuting vegetarian is several houses worth of meat eaters that take the bike to work. If we were to list what changes one can do in order to save the planet: 1) work at home, 2) bike everywhere that is human possible, 3) take the train in all other situation where possible, 4) eating/recycling/short shower/other minor aspects.