8 ms·

Simplify Your Message, and Repeat Often

166 points by andyraskin 10y ago

dmichulke 10y ago
And here I thought this was an article on how the NYT handled Trump in the months before the election.
- grzm 10y ago
  Please don't add politics to a thread unnecessarily. HN is not the place for that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - entelechy0 10y ago
    > Please don't add politics > New York Times gooby plz
  - treehau5 10y ago
    > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. The Trump phenomena is a new, interesting phenomena, though. People still have no idea how he won, I sure as hell don't.
  - andyraskin 10y ago
    IMO, pointing out the similarity between what Lilly preaches and what was — love it or hate it — a successful strategy in another field (that happens to be politics) is relevant and apolitical.
  - lacampbell 10y ago
    I would love to see this rule applied consistently.
    - grzm 10y ago
      I agree. HN isn't supposed to have so much political content. Help be part of the solution. Flag politically charged articles. Call out in a civil, non-partisan way comments that are injecting politics needlessly into the conversation. Submit and upvote tech articles you find interesting.
      - lacampbell 10y ago
        I am glad I am not the only one who feels this way. I love a good political fight as much as the next person, but there is a time and a place. I come here for tech discussions. I can't flag yet, but I'll do all the rest.
      - pjlegato 10y ago
        The guidelines do not ban politically charged content; they only ban political content that is not "evidence of some interesting new phenomenon." Flagging all political content is not consistent with that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        grzm 10y ago
        Yup. There's no ban on political content across the board. Which is why I specifically said "politically charged articles". I'm in no way suggesting flagging all political content. If you think I am, please let me know what gives you that impression and I'll work to be clearer in the future. From the guidelines: Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them. I think flagging politically charged submissions—particularly those that have shown themselves to lead to largely repetitive non-constructive flame wars—is consistent with the guidelines. That second quote is from the comment guidelines, but I think it's fair to apply the same standard to submissions as well. Edit to add: Are there recent topics on HN that you think have been unnecessarily flagged? Some that you've found particularly useful?
  - mch82 10y ago
    Technology is intertwined with politics. Perhaps if engineers and technologists engaged more, and more effectively, with the political process we'd see better representation in government. The way we discuss politics likely needs an adjustment in order to move away from win-lose thinking and debate to win-win thinking and collaboration. Edit: I do agree that it is makes HN less enjoyable when off-topic discussion overwhelms article-focused discussion, so generally favor on-topic posts. Often, the policy and governance issues relevant to posts are both value-added and on-topic.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - grzm 10y ago
      Agreed all around. The way we discuss politics likely needs an adjustment in order to move away from win-lose thinking and debate to win-win thinking and collaboration. This is the crux of it, I think. I've been thinking about this topic a lot, and watching how discourse develops here at HN (nothing scientific, mind you). I've seen plenty of others make similar comments. Something I've amused myself with is how often I come across a comment that I agree with, and then find it's made by someone who I disagree strongly with on some other issue. Which isn't all that surprising really, given how evenly split the election was. Humans aren't binary: there's got to be a lot of overlap there. A lot of common ground to build on. Anyway, this is far off-topic now. I appreciate your thoughtful comment!
- zellyn 10y ago
  I thought the exact same thing. In fact, I clicked through and was disappointed that the article was not an analysis of Trump's strategy…
TheBiv 10y ago
This Q&A really hit home for me. Q: Early leadership lessons for you? A: I didn’t understand the role of simplicity and messaging early on. One of the things that happened at one of my start-ups was that I would get bored saying the same thing every day. So I decided to change it up a little bit. But then everybody had a different idea of what I thought because I was mixing it up. So my big lesson was the importance of a simple message, and saying it the same way over and over. If you’re going to change it, change it in a big way, and make sure everyone knows it’s a change. Otherwise keep it static.
- hliyan 10y ago
  I too have this problem, or rather a different version of it. I fear my audience would get bored with the message so I unnecessarily vary it. I've since come to realise the true power of repetition, regardless of how many people think me a broken record...
  - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
    Do they actually think you are a broken record, or do you think they do? Whenever I hear someone repeat something, it does give me a sense of confidence in that person's belief,and the more I hear it, the more I think that they may be right. Carthago delenda est.
  - mch82 10y ago
    Same audience every time?
- mikesabat 10y ago
  It's a delicate balance between refining the message to make it simpler & clearer, vs changing it because you're getting bored. At the beginning of the project it's probably important to try different approaches, but then stick with the message once you have it. Many people would say that it's best to A/B test different messages in ads, and track which one works best. I'm finding it important to pitch the idea to 50 people first, get a feel for what resonates in the room and then test the messaging in an ad.
grandalf 10y ago
Please let's ban paywalled articles or else change the link to a google search so that the free version can be clicked.
- grzm 10y ago
  The web link is the google search. Paying for news is arguably one of the ways to improve news quality, and quality news is valued by many HN users. The submission includes the source. If you don't want to visit a paywalled source, HN already provides you with the information you need to make that decision.
  - grandalf 10y ago
    > Paying for news is arguably one of the ways to improve news quality, and quality news is valued by many HN users. The NYT has lost its position as the paper of record and has lost so much credibility. I used to be close to re-subscribing, but the horrible coverage of the 2016 election has helped me vow never to subscribe again. The NYT is America's Pravda and it continues to disgrace itself by trying to create a narrative to supports its political interests (Judith Miller, etc.) Posting paywalled stories is an attempt to help the organization generate revenue, much like posting a link that adds an item to cart and funnels the user right to the checkout page.
    - robbiemitchell 10y ago
      I don't understand your point. - Is paying for news categorically bad, or is it OK? - If it is bad, why do you think volunteers will magically produce better results than paid journalists/editors/etc.? - If it is OK that news gets paid for, why do you object to posting paid news sources on HN? - If you do not object to paid sources, but only to some sources, and the sources are indicated when the link is posted, why do you think they should the system should prevent the links from being clicked rather than let users choose which sources to visit?
      - grandalf 10y ago
notjustanymike 10y ago
I think I get it. Let me try: "Make America Great Again!" "Make America Great Again!" "Make America Great Again!" Ok. Got it.
- venomsnake 10y ago
  Spot on. Simple focused. Connecting on the deepest possible level. It was sad that the vehicle carrying it was not the best one. But it is incredibly strong and potent.
  - pixl97 10y ago
    #FightingForUs, #StrongerTogether, or is it #ImWithHer today? >The importance of a consistent message is all the more important given the candidate Clinton is on a collision course to face in November: master promoter Donald Trump. --Boston Globe, May 2016
adamjernst 10y ago
> The other thing I would say is to stay close to professions that create and make things, and stay away from derivative professions like finance. I think makers increasingly have the power in our society. Wow, interesting words from someone who works in finance.
MrZongle2 10y ago
FTA: "I remember when I was in second grade, we needed a new TV. All my friends would just go to the store and buy one, but my dad bought a Heathkit, and we had to put together the parts." What an awesome parent.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
User23 10y ago
Like for example speaking at a 4th grade level and having simple four word slogans?
beat 10y ago
Although message consistency is important, what message are you trying to communicate, and to whom?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dceddia 10y ago
This is a really interesting point: When I was a V.C. at first, I would just ask my questions and kind of poke, poke, poke, poke. And now I’ll say: “Look, I’m going to ask some things, and this might be kind of awkward, but I’m just going to say it, and let’s work our way through it. And it doesn’t mean I don’t believe in you and your company. I just want to understand where you are and what you think. I’m going to ask some things and they might be wrong, but let’s figure some things out together.” -- I've noticed that people have different assumptions about what it means to ask questions. Some folks (like the interviewee here) just ask away, because they want information -- their questions have no malicious intent behind them. But on the receiving side, this can cause problems. Some people, when asked probing questions (or any questions at all), will get defensive. Just the fact that someone is asking must mean they think something is wrong. Questions like "Why did you choose Node.js instead of Java?" can be (and I think often are) interpreted as "The questioner thinks I made the wrong choice, so I have to defend my choice now." People in the tech community seem particularly affected by this assumption. Interesting that this VC ran into that problem too.
- tchock23 10y ago
  Here is a little hack around that to not put people on the defensive. Instead of asking "Why," say "For what reasons." It makes people less defensive. (Source: Was a qualitative market researcher for 10 years, learned this through hundreds of customer interviews).
  - ak39 10y ago
    Thank you very much. This is great advice. I will use it for my conversation with my teenage son. I think many times before asking the "why" questions. Many times I simply don't know how to ask. Your suggestion is excellent.
  - neom 10y ago
    "What do you think about..." works really well for me. Whenever I'm asking my team why they are doing something, I just ask them to tell me what they think about it. Instead of why did you use node.js instead of java? I ask, what do you think about node.js as a choice instead of java?

166 points by andyraskin 10y ago

dmichulke 10y ago

And here I thought this was an article on how the NYT handled Trump in the months before the election.

grzm 10y ago
Please don't add politics to a thread unnecessarily. HN is not the place for that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- entelechy0 10y ago
  > Please don't add politics > New York Times gooby plz
- treehau5 10y ago
  > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. The Trump phenomena is a new, interesting phenomena, though. People still have no idea how he won, I sure as hell don't.
- andyraskin 10y ago
  IMO, pointing out the similarity between what Lilly preaches and what was — love it or hate it — a successful strategy in another field (that happens to be politics) is relevant and apolitical.
- lacampbell 10y ago
  I would love to see this rule applied consistently.
  - grzm 10y ago
    I agree. HN isn't supposed to have so much political content. Help be part of the solution. Flag politically charged articles. Call out in a civil, non-partisan way comments that are injecting politics needlessly into the conversation. Submit and upvote tech articles you find interesting.
    - lacampbell 10y ago
      I am glad I am not the only one who feels this way. I love a good political fight as much as the next person, but there is a time and a place. I come here for tech discussions. I can't flag yet, but I'll do all the rest.
    - pjlegato 10y ago
      The guidelines do not ban politically charged content; they only ban political content that is not "evidence of some interesting new phenomenon." Flagging all political content is not consistent with that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - grzm 10y ago
        Yup. There's no ban on political content across the board. Which is why I specifically said "politically charged articles". I'm in no way suggesting flagging all political content. If you think I am, please let me know what gives you that impression and I'll work to be clearer in the future. From the guidelines: Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them. I think flagging politically charged submissions—particularly those that have shown themselves to lead to largely repetitive non-constructive flame wars—is consistent with the guidelines. That second quote is from the comment guidelines, but I think it's fair to apply the same standard to submissions as well. Edit to add: Are there recent topics on HN that you think have been unnecessarily flagged? Some that you've found particularly useful?
- mch82 10y ago
  Technology is intertwined with politics. Perhaps if engineers and technologists engaged more, and more effectively, with the political process we'd see better representation in government. The way we discuss politics likely needs an adjustment in order to move away from win-lose thinking and debate to win-win thinking and collaboration. Edit: I do agree that it is makes HN less enjoyable when off-topic discussion overwhelms article-focused discussion, so generally favor on-topic posts. Often, the policy and governance issues relevant to posts are both value-added and on-topic.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - grzm 10y ago
    Agreed all around. The way we discuss politics likely needs an adjustment in order to move away from win-lose thinking and debate to win-win thinking and collaboration. This is the crux of it, I think. I've been thinking about this topic a lot, and watching how discourse develops here at HN (nothing scientific, mind you). I've seen plenty of others make similar comments. Something I've amused myself with is how often I come across a comment that I agree with, and then find it's made by someone who I disagree strongly with on some other issue. Which isn't all that surprising really, given how evenly split the election was. Humans aren't binary: there's got to be a lot of overlap there. A lot of common ground to build on. Anyway, this is far off-topic now. I appreciate your thoughtful comment!
zellyn 10y ago
I thought the exact same thing. In fact, I clicked through and was disappointed that the article was not an analysis of Trump's strategy…

TheBiv 10y ago

This Q&A really hit home for me. Q: Early leadership lessons for you? A: I didn’t understand the role of simplicity and messaging early on. One of the things that happened at one of my start-ups was that I would get bored saying the same thing every day. So I decided to change it up a little bit. But then everybody had a different idea of what I thought because I was mixing it up. So my big lesson was the importance of a simple message, and saying it the same way over and over. If you’re going to change it, change it in a big way, and make sure everyone knows it’s a change. Otherwise keep it static.

hliyan 10y ago
I too have this problem, or rather a different version of it. I fear my audience would get bored with the message so I unnecessarily vary it. I've since come to realise the true power of repetition, regardless of how many people think me a broken record...
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  Do they actually think you are a broken record, or do you think they do? Whenever I hear someone repeat something, it does give me a sense of confidence in that person's belief,and the more I hear it, the more I think that they may be right. Carthago delenda est.
- mch82 10y ago
  Same audience every time?
mikesabat 10y ago
It's a delicate balance between refining the message to make it simpler & clearer, vs changing it because you're getting bored. At the beginning of the project it's probably important to try different approaches, but then stick with the message once you have it. Many people would say that it's best to A/B test different messages in ads, and track which one works best. I'm finding it important to pitch the idea to 50 people first, get a feel for what resonates in the room and then test the messaging in an ad.

grandalf 10y ago

Please let's ban paywalled articles or else change the link to a google search so that the free version can be clicked.

grzm 10y ago
The web link is the google search. Paying for news is arguably one of the ways to improve news quality, and quality news is valued by many HN users. The submission includes the source. If you don't want to visit a paywalled source, HN already provides you with the information you need to make that decision.
- grandalf 10y ago
  > Paying for news is arguably one of the ways to improve news quality, and quality news is valued by many HN users. The NYT has lost its position as the paper of record and has lost so much credibility. I used to be close to re-subscribing, but the horrible coverage of the 2016 election has helped me vow never to subscribe again. The NYT is America's Pravda and it continues to disgrace itself by trying to create a narrative to supports its political interests (Judith Miller, etc.) Posting paywalled stories is an attempt to help the organization generate revenue, much like posting a link that adds an item to cart and funnels the user right to the checkout page.
  - robbiemitchell 10y ago
    I don't understand your point. - Is paying for news categorically bad, or is it OK? - If it is bad, why do you think volunteers will magically produce better results than paid journalists/editors/etc.? - If it is OK that news gets paid for, why do you object to posting paid news sources on HN? - If you do not object to paid sources, but only to some sources, and the sources are indicated when the link is posted, why do you think they should the system should prevent the links from being clicked rather than let users choose which sources to visit?
    - grandalf 10y ago

notjustanymike 10y ago

I think I get it. Let me try: "Make America Great Again!" "Make America Great Again!" "Make America Great Again!" Ok. Got it.

venomsnake 10y ago
Spot on. Simple focused. Connecting on the deepest possible level. It was sad that the vehicle carrying it was not the best one. But it is incredibly strong and potent.
- pixl97 10y ago
  #FightingForUs, #StrongerTogether, or is it #ImWithHer today? >The importance of a consistent message is all the more important given the candidate Clinton is on a collision course to face in November: master promoter Donald Trump. --Boston Globe, May 2016

adamjernst 10y ago

> The other thing I would say is to stay close to professions that create and make things, and stay away from derivative professions like finance. I think makers increasingly have the power in our society. Wow, interesting words from someone who works in finance.

MrZongle2 10y ago

FTA: "I remember when I was in second grade, we needed a new TV. All my friends would just go to the store and buy one, but my dad bought a Heathkit, and we had to put together the parts." What an awesome parent.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

User23 10y ago

Like for example speaking at a 4th grade level and having simple four word slogans?

beat 10y ago

Although message consistency is important, what message are you trying to communicate, and to whom?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

dceddia 10y ago

This is a really interesting point: When I was a V.C. at first, I would just ask my questions and kind of poke, poke, poke, poke. And now I’ll say: “Look, I’m going to ask some things, and this might be kind of awkward, but I’m just going to say it, and let’s work our way through it. And it doesn’t mean I don’t believe in you and your company. I just want to understand where you are and what you think. I’m going to ask some things and they might be wrong, but let’s figure some things out together.” -- I've noticed that people have different assumptions about what it means to ask questions. Some folks (like the interviewee here) just ask away, because they want information -- their questions have no malicious intent behind them. But on the receiving side, this can cause problems. Some people, when asked probing questions (or any questions at all), will get defensive. Just the fact that someone is asking must mean they think something is wrong. Questions like "Why did you choose Node.js instead of Java?" can be (and I think often are) interpreted as "The questioner thinks I made the wrong choice, so I have to defend my choice now." People in the tech community seem particularly affected by this assumption. Interesting that this VC ran into that problem too.

tchock23 10y ago
Here is a little hack around that to not put people on the defensive. Instead of asking "Why," say "For what reasons." It makes people less defensive. (Source: Was a qualitative market researcher for 10 years, learned this through hundreds of customer interviews).
- ak39 10y ago
  Thank you very much. This is great advice. I will use it for my conversation with my teenage son. I think many times before asking the "why" questions. Many times I simply don't know how to ask. Your suggestion is excellent.
- neom 10y ago
  "What do you think about..." works really well for me. Whenever I'm asking my team why they are doing something, I just ask them to tell me what they think about it. Instead of why did you use node.js instead of java? I ask, what do you think about node.js as a choice instead of java?