4 ms·

The point is it will only ever directly effect products made by the same company. A device from HP or Microsoft will never be hurt by an issue with a closed Ap

by zweben 16y ago

The point is it will only ever directly effect products made by the same company. A device from HP or Microsoft will never be hurt by an issue with a closed Apple platform. If there are issues with Flash, it will hurt every company using Flash, and there is nothing those companies can do about it other than bug Adobe to fix it or drop Flash support.

tomlin 16y ago
I don't disagree that Flash has the potential to create issues. The argument just suffers from the fallacy of composition. The standoff motif is getting old. We're talking about software, not cold war against another country. Apple doesn't want you to notice Steve behind the curtain. With Adobe we tend to pick and choose what we agree with and ignore the points that don't support our bias.
- chc 16y ago
  In what way is saying "Flash has problems, therefore putting Flash on your platform will expose it to those problems" a fallacy of composition? I don't see it at all. It's not wrongly attributing an attribute of one small part of Flash to the whole. Or are you saying the fallacy is somewhere else?
  - tomlin 16y ago
    In this respect, I am not arguing for or against Flash on any device. Just that the argument against it is just as flawed as the argument for it.
    - chc 16y ago
      But you don't appear to have pointed out any specific flaws in the argument against it. So you're not making an argument, just an unsupported assertion.
      - tomlin 16y ago
        All I am saying is that Steve Jobs isn't putting all the facts on the table as they are. He is feeding the anti-Flash gang mob with half-truths. To say Flash is proprietary, possibly poorly executed format is a fair thing to say. To say it is completely without merit and has no place is a fallacy. HTML5 video is widely supported today. Flash might be a delivery vehicle for another unrealized idea tomorrow. And the "death to the plugin arch" circle-jerk logic is almost intolerable. Only create within the confines of the parent layer's imaginative capacity? Sounds more closed than SWF. kevinh said it best: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1305322 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1305322 Support to my assertions: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1304353 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1304353
        ericd 16y ago
        I have no issue with him shutting out something that really sucks today at the cost of potentially missing out on something awesome to do with it tomorrow. The awesome scenario just doesn't seem likely to come to pass. If tomorrow there's a completely great thing on the web that can only be done with flash, then I think Jobs is pragmatic enough to reevaluate. But the fact that the main use for Flash on the web these days, beside video and unusable websites, are animated flash ads that use up 40% of my much more powerful Macbook Pro's CPU time means I'm in no hurry to have flash on the phone, openness dogma be damned. When Jobs limits my general purpose computers, I'll be angry, but until then, I'm glad he's making the tough design decisions instead of just letting the device be a free for all.
        Qz 16y ago
        What flash ads? Just use AdBlock.
        ericd 16y ago
        My point was that that is one of the main uses of Flash, and that an extremely simple/common flash implementation is enough to burn a huge number of CPU cycles for no benefit.

by zweben 16y ago

tomlin 16y ago

I don't disagree that Flash has the potential to create issues. The argument just suffers from the fallacy of composition. The standoff motif is getting old. We're talking about software, not cold war against another country. Apple doesn't want you to notice Steve behind the curtain. With Adobe we tend to pick and choose what we agree with and ignore the points that don't support our bias.

chc 16y ago
In what way is saying "Flash has problems, therefore putting Flash on your platform will expose it to those problems" a fallacy of composition? I don't see it at all. It's not wrongly attributing an attribute of one small part of Flash to the whole. Or are you saying the fallacy is somewhere else?
- tomlin 16y ago
  In this respect, I am not arguing for or against Flash on any device. Just that the argument against it is just as flawed as the argument for it.
  - chc 16y ago
    But you don't appear to have pointed out any specific flaws in the argument against it. So you're not making an argument, just an unsupported assertion.
    - tomlin 16y ago
      All I am saying is that Steve Jobs isn't putting all the facts on the table as they are. He is feeding the anti-Flash gang mob with half-truths. To say Flash is proprietary, possibly poorly executed format is a fair thing to say. To say it is completely without merit and has no place is a fallacy. HTML5 video is widely supported today. Flash might be a delivery vehicle for another unrealized idea tomorrow. And the "death to the plugin arch" circle-jerk logic is almost intolerable. Only create within the confines of the parent layer's imaginative capacity? Sounds more closed than SWF. kevinh said it best: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1305322 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1305322 Support to my assertions: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1304353 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1304353
      - ericd 16y ago
        I have no issue with him shutting out something that really sucks today at the cost of potentially missing out on something awesome to do with it tomorrow. The awesome scenario just doesn't seem likely to come to pass. If tomorrow there's a completely great thing on the web that can only be done with flash, then I think Jobs is pragmatic enough to reevaluate. But the fact that the main use for Flash on the web these days, beside video and unusable websites, are animated flash ads that use up 40% of my much more powerful Macbook Pro's CPU time means I'm in no hurry to have flash on the phone, openness dogma be damned. When Jobs limits my general purpose computers, I'll be angry, but until then, I'm glad he's making the tough design decisions instead of just letting the device be a free for all.
        Qz 16y ago
        What flash ads? Just use AdBlock.
        ericd 16y ago
        My point was that that is one of the main uses of Flash, and that an extremely simple/common flash implementation is enough to burn a huge number of CPU cycles for no benefit.