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New XPS 13 Developer Edition Lands in Europe, United States and Canada
- hmottestad 10y agoJust as a note to anyone wanting to pick one up. The webcam is down by the keyboard, and not in the bezel above the screen. So if you work remote, all your fellow workmates will be staring up your nose. https://www.google.no/search?q=xps+13+webcam&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjwuZORhMnQAhXLBcAKHeUnDlwQ_AUICCgB&biw=1068&bih=816 https://www.google.no/search?q=xps+13+webcam&safe=off&source...
- aneidon 10y agoAs shown in this Ars review: http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/11/dell-xps-13-kaby-lake-review/ http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/11/dell-xps-13-kaby-la...
- ryanlol 10y agoSeems like it might work fine on a couch or such.
- cadecairos 10y agoIt really doesn't. I've got the XPS 15 and the camera is similarly placed. The optimal solution is to just run a USB webcam to the top of an external monitor. On the go, you're SOL. Not only can everyone see up your nose, but don't even try typing unless you want to distract everyone with some nice finger close-ups.
- dugmartin 10y agoI do the same - first so my clients aren't looking at the side of my face as I'm looking at them on my main monitor and second because the built in webcam quality is pretty horrible.
- sundvor 10y agoMight be good if you don't type touch then. It'll look like you're looking at the camera (them) more often. (As for myself, I'd just look arrogant...) The minute someone can magic out a way to turn a monitor into a multi point camera, add some eye tracking logic and integrate that with the conference display, we'll have a small video teleconference revolution on our hands. Unfortunately, doing a search I see that Apple has already thought of that.. http://appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/08/apple_files_patent_for_camera_hidden_behind_display http://appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/08/apple_files_patent...
- 20161112 10y agoA bit 1984 for my tastes. I still put tape over my laptop webcam.
- andrepd 10y agoAs you should. If Zuckerberg does it so do you.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- sliken 10y agoThe real answer is a 3d camera. That way you can actually make eye contact and interact much more realistically. Fortunately the apple patent doesn't seem to apply.
- sundvor 10y agoAh, yes, that sounds like what we need! Eye contact is lost with today's cameras, and solving this would have a great impact on remote communications.
- wyclif 10y agoWhy on earth would they place the webcam there?
- morsch 10y agoThe XPS 13 pioneered ultra-thin bezels which really are quite cool[0] -- not just visually: they shrunk the device footprint while keeping the screen the same size. The poor webcam position was a casualty of that design. What's a bit weird is that even in this, what, second or third revision, they haven't managed to engineer around this issue despite it being mentioned as a major downside practically every time the laptop comes up. [0] Striking comparison with a contemporary MBP: https://www.windowscentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/styles/xlarge_wm_brw/public/field/image/2015/02/xps-13-macbook-pro-hero.jpg https://www.windowscentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/sty...
- lm2s 10y agoWhat would be the reason for such (seemingly bad) decision?
- fekberg 10y agoDue to "InfinityEdge Display", there's no room to put it anywhere else. It does make the built in webcam rather useless, I've got an external (Logitech 920) webcam. Look at the InfinityEdge Display here: http://www.weboo.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/New-Dell-XP-15-inch-Features-Borderless-Infinity-Edge-Touch-Display.jpg http://www.weboo.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/New-Dell-XP-1...
- matt_kantor 10y agoStrange, that link redirects to http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/colgate12/weboo-co-imgs_zpsxb7s99vj.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/colgate12/weboo-co-img... when I follow it in my normal browser session. It works as expected from incognito mode.
- userbinator 10y agoWhy couldn't they do something like this? https://files.catbox.moe/2nnsm3.jpg https://files.catbox.moe/2nnsm3.jpg
- bmurphy1976 10y agoThey should have done something like this, but it's Dell, not Apple. I've used a number of their top of the line products over the years, and they've always been riddled with cost-saving compromises like this. If they put the bezel on top, they'd have to invest more money into the display hinge as well instead of whatever cheap plastic parts they currently use. That would eat into their profits, so it won't happen until the competition forces it.
- roryisok 10y agoEvery xps 13 review I've seen mentions this as a big minus. I haven't used it yet, so I don't know, but is it really that big a deal? Seems like its a fair trade off for an edge to edge screen?
- humanrebar 10y agoAre webcams that hard to configure?
- morganvachon 10y agoI think you misunderstood. The physical location of the webcam is so low on the device that it can only show the user from slightly underneath. This can't be fixed in software.
- alistairSH 10y agoI think he meant an external webcam, which I suppose works well enough if you work at the same desk most of the time.
- pgaddict 10y agoI don't even remember when I actually used a webcam on a laptop. I'm either in a conference room with dedicated camera, or doing voice-only meetings when traveling.
- dorfsmay 10y agoCamera focused on fingers: the digital era!
- e40 10y agoGiven the security fears of cameras, I think it would be nice to have a no-camera option. Those that want a camera can then use a USB one, the main feature of which is that it can be unplugged when not in use.
- numerlo 10y agoGo old school and use a tape, it should work just as well.
- scurvy 10y agoHow do you deal with the microphone?
- Faaak 10y agoTake a needle and punch it
- scurvy 10y agoWhat if you need it one day? You can remove tape from the web cam, but a needle is quite permanent.
- scrollaway 10y agoI can't tell if it's a serious comment or not but in case it's serious: Why even buy a laptop? If you're paranoid enough to want to do this sort of thing to something you're paying over $1.5k for, have you realized the consequences of what other things a bad agent can do? Your data, your files are more valuable to the NSA than your microphone. If they care about what you're saying, your house is already bugged.
- lazarus101 10y agoYes, because you can't buy a standalone webcam...
- ilogik 10y agoMy boss has an older model. Every time he's on Skype, and he's typing, his hand is huge ,on the screen
- gcb0 10y agoit is a usability choice. camera up top = screen down a inch. Camera on the bottom = screen up a inch. I rater the camera be clumsy since i use it 0.001% of the time, and the screen be 1" up since i use it all the time. 1" seems small. but that is probably 10 degrees on your neck if you have the laptop at half arms reach.
- tsaprailis 10y agoWhile I think that the Dell XPS is the most beautiful of the Dell machines, I think that the lattitude, especially the e7470 model[0] is a better development machine as they're more easily upgradable (at least regarding the RAM and SSD). [0]http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/latitude-e7470-ultrabook/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/latitude-e7470-ultrabook/p...
- 20161112 10y agoThe Precision 5510 is basically the XPS but with far more upgrade options.
- fattire 10y agoBut skylake, not kaby lake...
- cxseven 10y agoLatitudes also have a WAY better keyboard.
- pgaddict 10y agoJudging by the pictures, the new models have pretty much the same keyboard as XPS. And the 15" models only come with numpad, which is a bit silly IMNSHO.
- cm2187 10y agoAgree. I use E7470 too. And it can run Windows 7. The only grief I have is the useless fingerprint reader.
- sulam 10y ago<snark>But it only has 16GB, obviously that's not enough for developers!</snark> (Typing this on the new MBP that people tell me is not a "Pro" machine -- but it's the best laptop I've ever owned!)
- rahkiin 10y agoBut wait: this XPS actually has 'only' 16GB RAM. Why doesn't this seem to be a problem now? Is it replaceable?
- IanCal 10y agoDell also make laptops with far more ram, so it's not a choice of ">16GB or dell" it's just with this specific line of laptops.
- 20161112 10y agoThe current gen XPS 15 can be upgraded to 32gb. Not sure about the 13.
- jmkni 10y agoI have one of these at the moment, with 32GB of ram. Definitely the fastest machine I've ever owned/used.
- karmajunkie 10y agoHow's the extra ram affect the battery life? Recent HN discussions seems to point toward a heavy battery penalty because of the type of ram needed. (NB: I am not a hardware nerd, looking for actual information here, not just an idle question)
- jmkni 10y agoI'm honestly not sure, good question though. I guess it's difficult to test, would also be interested to know if somebody has tested the different versions against each other.
- pavanky 10y ago*Killer cards are a branding of Qualcomm Atheros. Their Linux drivers are open source and the firmware is now upstream. This is very interesting. I am glad they are trying to include as many open source drivers as possible! On a side note, Dell seems to be putting a bit of effort into this series. Do you guys think they are selling well enough for them to continue doing this or are they doing this as a hedge against Microsoft ?
- georgyo 10y agoI switched from a macbook to the previous model a year ago and put Arch on it. The machine is really really excellent. I recently walked in a cafe in NYC and saw 6 of them and two macbooks, which I was shocked at. So I hope Dell keeps it up. It's about time we had someone make decent laptops, besides apple, again. I was really missing the IBM Thinkpad series until these came along. Lenovo did not carry the torch well.
- pavanky 10y agoNice! I have a developer version of the Dell precision series that is 2 generations old at this point. It has one of the best screens I have ever seen. > I recently walked in a cafe in NYC and saw 6 of them and two macbooks, which I was shocked at. Interesting! Is there any chance you caught what OS they were on (i.e. Linux vs Windows).
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- yoz-y 10y agoThe I/O ports on it seem wrong. It would be much better if it lose the power plug and one of the old USB ports for two additional TB3 ports. Love the power gauge, although I rarely use it I really like it on my old MBP and miss it on the new ones.
- rootbear 10y agoThey currently offer only one low end model with the non-touch screen. I wish they would offer a few better options with that screen. The regular HD screen meets all my needs and takes much less power.
- nickthemagicman 10y agoHave a 15 XPS that I installed Ubuntu on. I tried the 13 but I personally like bigger screen to work on. Everything worked perfectly with Ubuntu 16.10 except the headphones which I found a pretty simple solution for online. I love it! Highly reccomended.
- JonyEpsilon 10y agoI wonder if they've fixed the coil whine problem with this iteration. That's the sticking point for me currently.
- IanCal 10y agoI've just got the previous version and the coil whine is really annoying. I'm debating whether to keep it. I actually wouldn't mind as much if it's constant, but hearing a "brbrbrbrbrbr" whenever I scroll is very irritating. There's a lot of static on the headphone port too, which is disappointing.
- dreistdreist 10y agoSame here. As soon as they have that fixed I'll buy one.
- karussell 10y agoThis also highly influenced my decision to buy a Lenovo T460 which is silent (even no noise under load) and long lasting too and Linux runs well on it too and is a lot cheaper for the same hardware, but does not look that pretty ;)
- ninja_quack 10y agoI have one and the answer is no. I had no idea this was actually a thing before this morning :( It seems to only happen when there is graphics stress -- using "semaphores=1 i915_enable_rc6=7 i915_enable_fbc=1" seems to help, and once I started playing videos with --hwdec it was quieter also.. As it only happens during video, and I usually have headphones or the speakers going at those times I'm not too bugged by it yet.. Doing a kernel compile or something noisy in a term doesn't seem to trigger it..
- sfifs 10y agoCan I get these in India? There's currently NO Linux pre-installed laptops available in India as far s I can see (apart from Chromebooks). In the article, there seems to be some secret list of countries beyond EU and the US. What's the barrier making these available more broadly and have straightforward buying process?
- codedinosaur 10y agoYou can simply buy Windows versions of these laptops in India and install Linux. AFAIK, the hardware is identical on both devices. If you install Ubuntu on the machine, you will get all the drivers during installation. You might want to wait for the Kaby Lake versions to hit Indian online stores though.
- dsego 10y agoNot identical, the ubuntu version gets the well supported intel wireless card. http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/os-applications/f/4613/t/19634843 http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/os-applications/f/46...
- Rezo 10y agoThat was true for the Skylake XPS machines. The new Kaby Lake machines, sold with either Windows or Ubuntu, all use the "Killer" Qualcomm Atheros chip. There's also more configurations to pick from with Windows, so it's not a bad idea if you're comfortable installing Ubuntu by yourself.
- Oletros 10y agoNot this year's XPS
- storrgie 10y agoThis may sound snarky but we've run the 7370 version of their lineup and chosen to abandon them for T460s at the time being. There are some pretty not cool things going on with the thunderbolt subsystem when it comes to displays and network cards. Edit: to go into a bit more detail, we seem to see arbitrary packet loss on the thunderbolt based network cards (pigtails and docking stations), as well as sometimes the MAC changes, which messes with our radius system. Furthermore, there are some issues with hardware acceleration on skylake so having a QHD screen is basically a waste if you want to try and view any QHD video content. We ran Arch the entire time my team was on these and we kept the wiki up for this product. It just seemed that we were fighting a loosing battle with Dell's docks and with Intel's skylake stuff.
- semi-extrinsic 10y agoI have a Precision 5510 (XPS 15 Pro model), and was having nothing but trouble with their Thunderbolt/USB Type C docking station. After I threw that away and bought a pair of these [1] USB 3.0 to HDMI/VGA/Eth/USB dongles plugged into a 7 port USB hub, I've had no trouble, and no sacrifice in convenience. This was on Win 10. I believe those dongles are now useable also on Linux. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Dell-DA100-Universal-Adapter/dp/B00O0M46T0 https://www.amazon.com/Dell-DA100-Universal-Adapter/dp/B00O0...
- partisan 10y agoDo you recommend the 5510? I am seriously considering replacing my MacBook Pro with this. I currently get an hour and change of battery life when running my Windows VM even though OSX gets 7 hours easily.
- semi-extrinsic 10y agoIt's a nice piece of kit for sure. I have the smaller battery, and it lasts about 4-5 hours. Would recommend skipping the second SSD and getting the bigger battery if you're off-power alot. On the negative, Windows 10 HiDPI scaling is still flaky, especially if you have a 1080p external monitor plugged in (then it's essentially broken), so I'd recommend skipping the 4K version. Also, you might want to set aside a few hours for driver upgrades, unless they've updated the install image since April. Both the WiFi, graphics and USB drivers that shipped on my machine were really flaky. I haven't tried dual booting it with Linux yet, but it runs a Linux VM just fine. The heaviest application I run on it is probably AutoCAD, which makes it struggle sometimes, especially on battery power. You might want to also look at the HP EliteBook lineup, I've heard that they're good solid machines, perhaps with less fuss out of the box.
- forgotpwtomain 10y ago> This Kaby Lake-based system comes with Ubuntu 16.04LTS preloaded and features the InfinityEdge display. If you haven't had the personal experience yet: stay away from new Intel processors on linux for at least a year post release. And if you must purchase something with a new Intel processor - do yourself a favor and pick a rolling-release distribution like Archlinux. -- but seriously I advice against it, I tried an XPS 15 with Skylake a little over half-a-year ago and it was extremely unstable at the time (even running the kernel of git-master).
- daenney 10y agoAnd how do you know it was related to the kernel and CPU combo? Do you have some series of patches that have been landed in the kernel since that claim to fix the issues you've had and have you tried those?
- h4waii 10y agoSkylake support only really landed in 4.4 and ramped up in 4.6 to be release-ready, it's fairly well known and you can ready any release vote from 4.4 to 4.7 to see commits pertaining to Skylake or the XPS13.
- scurvy 10y agoCannot up vote this enough. Same experience with a current generation Razer Stealth Blade. Power remaining jumps from 6 hours to 1 on the UI and only lasts 45 minutes at best. Dual boot into Windows 10 and everything is great. This is 100% a Linux kernel and power management issue.
- icebraining 10y agoThis is why I like buying used laptops - they're cheap and the kinks are already worked out.
- eb0la 10y agoWhere do you usually buy them? Any recommendation?
- aq3cn 10y agoDoes any potential buyer has given serious thought to Intel NUC products instead of a laptop? I see several advantage of owing it like 1. portability 2. connects to extenal GPU (it already has integrated Iris Pro GPU) 3. optical audio 4. upgradable/future proof 5. my choice of keyboard/mouse/os/display 6. Thunderbolt™ 3 www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/products-overview.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11908100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11908100
- brudgers 10y agoOver the years, my basic operational distinction between laptops and desktops comes down to Uninteruptable Power Supplies. It's not just working in the coffee shop [though that matters]. Thunderstorms matter too. By the time I put a NUC on a UPS, and a monitor, keyboard, mouse, what advantage does it have over a regular desktop if I need computing power, or an rPi if I'm just noodling around in the terminal.
- aq3cn 10y agoAs you can read my above response, it makes my life easier while transportation. I certainly will choose desktop tower in comparison to this miniPC but that just isn't possible for now for me. Some use it as their media center in living room instead of work station.
- brudgers 10y agoThat makes sense. It seems like a different use case than is typical for a laptop. Though one that I used laptop might readily fill...there's some nice kit available for the price of a new NUC.
- peatmoss 10y agoYeah (not a NUC specifically, though I considered that), but a small formfactor PC. I really like having that little bit of friction keeping me tied to an actual workstation. If I'm feeling antsy like I should be sitting in a coffee shop or office lounge area, that's usually a good signal to me that it's time to take a break. A workstation isn't a computer form factor, it's a comprehensive suite of ergonomic and self mental conditioning decisions. As a side benefit, it's very easy to find / build a ludicrously performant computer, for not much money, that runs Linux (or even OpenBSD!) like a dream. I was genuinely sad when my most sign-on with a job didn't give me a non-laptop option. I'm increasingly of the opinion that kind, humane IT departments offer workstations and allow people to borrow chromebooks for rare travel or working from home. The alternative sets up a subtle expectation that you could / should be working outside work. Plus I have to schlep the stupid thing home or lock it up in a cabinet every night. If only I could epoxy it to the desk... You heard it here: 2017 is the year when startups, to demonstrate work-life balance friendliness, advertise big desktop workstation options for employees.
- davexunit 10y agoVery happy to see they ditched the Intel wireless chip that requires proprietary firmware for an Atheros chip.
- emilsedgh 10y agoGreat! I need a new laptop and my options are Thinkpad X1 Carbon and Dell XPS. Anyone has experiences with the two of them so he can compare?
- rcdmd 10y agoI chose Dell because the 13" screen fit my needs more than the 14", and they have have committed to supporting Linux while Lenovo has been sluggish to release necessary drivers (there was some backlash here and on Reddit 1-2 months ago about this). My Dell has a mild coil-whine problem, and the keyboard is probably less desirable than the Lenovo's-- you can go to a Microsoft store and try out the Dell's keyboard if you have one nearby.
- spiralpolitik 10y agoI've used both over the last 3 years. The X1 Carbon is ahead in terms of build quality and you have access to Lenovo's various maintenance options. The XPS has better Linux support. Personally I found the Trackpad on the XPS 13 terrible to the point it was unusable. If buying again would probably go for the X1 Carbon.
- montyboy_us 10y agoI just recently broke down and picked up an X1 Carbon 4th gen in lieu of a new MBP w/ TouchBar. The 14" display is a sweet spot for size and resolution. I run Fedora, and everything 'just worked' besides the fingerprint scanner. I'm sure the new XPS will have good battery life, but the X1 is doing amazing with minimal powertop/tlp tweaking. What I couldn't find when I was researching were thermal reviews on the X1 Carbon (important to me). Thankfully, I can say that it's always cool to the touch and the fan rarely spins up enough to be audible. Naturally, building from source and some video do cause the fans to engage, but they're not 'whiny'.
- dreistdreist 10y agoPlease don't give Lenovo any money. They were caught 3 times already for installing spyware on their systems, why support such a company? Considering the XPS myself, but waiting for the coil whine to be fixed. I have also been eyeing the ASUS UX305 as possible alternative.
- rcdmd 10y agoThis version has been out in the US for over a month now, I bought it directly from Dell in October. I have the non-developer editoin and installed Arch Linux on it as my primary OS. It did not require any hacks and the process is well-documented on the Arch Wiki. If you qualify for Dell EPP, you can get a non-developer edition with the same specs as the developer edition and a Windows license for the same price.
- wolfgke 10y agoI already complained on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11815107 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11815107 concerning the older edition that it is ludicrous to call a laptop "Developer Edition" that does not even have an ethernet port. It seems Dell makes again the same mistake. For protocol: For selling a "hipster model" it should better be thin, well-designed etc. For something that targets developers you want - Ethernet port (ideally 10 GBit/s instead of 1 GBit/s if possible) - Easily available maintaince manual and easy to open case to replace/extend RAM, replace SSD, clean fan etc. - Hardware for which open specification is as much available as possible (which is a much stronger condition than "open source drivers on GNU/Linux are available") - But besides GNU/Linux it also should be able to run Windows (often it is really import to be able to test software on Windows) - Non-locked UEFI bootloader (including possibility to enable/disable secure boot) with ability add own keys and also remove existing secure boot keys (e.g. Microsoft's one if you really are a FOSS fanboy). - Ideally possibility to compile UEFI firmware from source code on your own such that as few blobs as possible are compiled in (this probably also implies a necessity that a way exists to reset the UEFI to the factory state if you bricked the UEFI by too much experimenting). - Long lifetime (5 years +) from purchase for which the device is officially supported by the manufacturer
- jvehent 10y agoMost offices I visit no longer provide RJ45 to the desk. It's all wifi nowadays, which makes sense since you're supposed to get 600+Mbps on a modern access point (which never happens, but that's the sales pitch). At least the Lenovo Carbon X1 has a dongle for RJ45. Useful when that `docker pull` ends up downloading a 1.5GB container...
- gravypod 10y agoIf it's a primary development machine then sometimes it's going to need to do some number crunching. It doesn't matter that it's not made for it, sometimes you don't have time to spin up an aws instance. Some of these times internet access is needed for number crunching. This is when it really comes in hand That and moving around 30gb backups of numbers you've crunched.
- 10y ago
- pmyjavec 10y agoAnyone know about an Australian release date ?
- mistat 10y agoProbably same as previous releases.... Keep holding your breath
- mistat 10y agoProbably same as previous releases.... Keep holding your breath
- lostsock 10y agoThey're already out: http://www.dell.com/au/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?oc=z510898au&model_id=xps-13-9360-laptop http://www.dell.com/au/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?oc=z510898au&... "Ships in 9 - 12 business days"
- ikeboy 10y agoNote that i7 laptop quad core chips are not out yet. On my current dual core i7-6500u 16gb (HP pavilion 15), it noticeably slows down with a modest number of chrome tabs (50 or so spread between several windows, but many of them suspended). Side note: are there any quad core skylake i7 laptops with a good battery life, like closer to 8 hours than 4?
- jmkni 10y agoI have an XPS 15 with the 4K monitor, and I get about three hours or so on battery when developing with Visual Studio, and running a VM etc. I hear the 1080p version has much better battery life.
- JustSomeNobody 10y agoare those prices correct? 949 for 128gb(who does this!?), but 1349 for 256gb? 400 jump and everything else the same!?
- dudul 10y agoThere is also a jump for the screen from non-touch to touch. http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?3x_nav=OS_BRAND%3DUBUNT&3x_page=1&filterCollapsed=true http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?3x_n...
- JustSomeNobody 10y agoAh, Ok, I see now. Hmmm... I don't see a way to increase from 128GB to 256GB w/out also getting the touch screen. I would be perfectly happy with 13" @ 1920X1080 and no touch screen. Ah, well. For the best, I don't really need a new laptop ATM.
- dudul 10y agoSame. I have really no use for a touch screen, but I wouldn't go with less than 16gb and 256gb of storage.
- gnuvince 10y agoIs it possible to install my own SSD in an XPS 13? The price difference between the default 128 GB drive and the 512 GB is a whooping $1000! I'd love to buy an XPS 13, but this price difference sounds like theft.
- cxseven 10y agoI don't see how anyone can call this a developer edition laptop if it has the same keyboard as the rest of the XPS line. XPS keyboards are mushy chiclets with big gaps between keys. Meanwhile, Dell's Latitude line has excellent keyboards, at least as excellent as you're likely to get in a laptop these days.
- morganvachon 10y agoI've always been a fan of the Latitude series, they are (in my experience) the best combination of quality components, cost efficiency, and are easy to repair/upgrade. The only negative is that they tend to lag behind Dell's other series when it comes to having the latest CPU/GPU.
- nix0n 10y agoHow's the Linux support?
- morganvachon 10y agoFrom Dell, no official support, but my experience over the years has been that they are well supported by the Linux community for network drivers and things like power management (sleep/wake). The biggest downside (for me) is the lack of a good GPU beyond the Intel HD series; the models I've dealt with are most often equipped with Quadro NVS chips. The NVS just barely outperforms the Intel HD series, but requires the closed source driver to do so. I haven't messed with them since the Sandy Bridge days though, so your mileage may vary with more recent models.
- dorfsmay 10y agoNo TrackPoint, 16 GB mem, not interested! Where is the perceptions that developers want really thin laptops and super hi res screen coming from? Neither is going to help me run a few VMs, data stores etc...
- kozak 10y agoThat's because developers work with text quite a lot, and text benefits hugely from a higher res screen.
- oftenwrong 10y agoFor the hard hardcore, the Precision 17 7000 is available with 64GB ECC. I can't risk a cosmic ray corrupting my extreme web browsing sessions.
- karmajunkie 10y agoJust out of curiosity why the trackpoint requirement? I've always hated those things, wondering if I'm missing something.
- dorfsmay 10y agoFor me: • no need to take my hands of my keyboard when I need to move the cursor, so I can start typing again right away • you can make the cursor travel long distance by just applying a bit of hard pressure, no need to go back and forth on the pad • three-button, so I can use the middle button to paste (X11 copy/paste system), open a link in a new tabe, etc...
- pgaddict 10y agoIf you're looking for a larger laptop with the same design, look also at the Dell Precision 5510 line, not just XPS 15. I've been waiting for an XPS15 with a good CPU and without discrete GPU, and gave up - they only do i3 version. Then I've noticed the new Precision 5510 uses the same XPS-like design, gives you i5-6640HQ with Intel GPU (not sure why they don't offer i7 without Nvidia too). Anyway, got mine a few days ago, seems working flawlessly (except the usual UEFI / Secure Boot stuff). Comes with Ubuntu out of the box, seems to work fine with Qubes so far.
- johnchristopher 10y agoI am in the same boat. I read that the 5510's fan is quite noisy so I am still thinking of the xps (it's really important for me).
- pgaddict 10y agoI don't think it's particularly noisy. Sure, you can hear it when doing CPU-intensive stuff (say, doing "make -j4" on a large project), but well - the heat needs to go somewhere, otherwise the laptop would get quite hot (like the MBP, for example). The fan opening is on the bottom, not on the side/back as on other laptops, so perhaps this also dampens the noise. I've heard there were issues with proper power management on skylake when it was new, so perhaps they fixed it in the kernel - no idea. Or maybe the noise is worse on the models with Nvidia, which is one of the reasons why I wanted a model without it. It's also possible that the fan will get more noisy over time, so let's see. Update: The one thing I'm only 95% happy with is the keyboard - it's way better than on all the other 15.6" laptops I've tried (in particular no numpad stupidity), but I'd still prefer the keyboard from my old t420s. The enter is way too narrow on the "EN international" keyboard, should get the US keyboard instead, for example.
- brudgers 10y agoFan operation is pretty much dictated by physics. Higher wattage CPU's will generate more heat as a tradeoff for less throttling. The two ways standard ways to deal with heat are more aggressive cooling profiles or a bigger heat sink (i.e. a larger and heavier laptop overall). The 5510's are packaged to be relatively smaller and lighter. The Precision 7500 models are heavier and larger. The additional volume also allows more expansion (and accommodate significantly more powerful hardware at initial build). In terms of fan noise, choice of CPU and workload is probably going to make more difference than anything else.
- jaxondu 10y agoWondering if there is an awesome list of sanction notebooks used by startups/tech companies? i.e. approved notebook brand and models to be purchased for employee.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- erokar 10y agoIt looks good, but I'm a bit concerned about the keyboard. Can anyone comment on how it is compared to e.g. the keyboard on a Macbook Air?
- _Robbie 10y agoHere's my reply to another comment about the keyboard: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13051133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13051133
- lol768 10y agoAnyone know if they fixed the long-running keyboard debounce issue with this version? I remember it was 'fixed' with a few BIOS updates but they never seemed to actually get to the root of the problem with the model I had and I eventually returned it.
- aendruk 10y agoNever experienced it on the 9350.
- sssparkkk 10y agoI have the skylake precision 5510; it also has the keyboard debounce issue, and it hasn't been fixed. Contacted Dell, had the keyboard replaced but that hasn't helped. I don't have faith in their ability to fix this - it's been an issue going back all the way to 2009 and affects multiple models (latitude, inspiron, xps, precision) Used an external keyboard for the first few months, so money back is not an option anymore. Terrible experience!
- scurvy 10y agoAre there any tips to getting Linux working well with HiDPI displays? We tried running kUbuntu on a QHD Razer laptop and the experience was pretty bad. Also tried Fedora, but that was bad for other reasons (kernel crashes, don't like Gnome3). With kUbuntu we can scale parts of the UI OK, but many apps just don't scale and are unusable. Until this is really solved across the board, Linux laptops will remain a thing of the future. Also, the Kaby Lake power management was trash and the system would lock up every time you toggled the caps lock.
- chimeracoder 10y agoWhat are the issues you've run into? I'm using the older 4K model, so it's not Kaby Lake, but many of the HiDPI complaints I would have had three years ago are now resolved. The only apps that don't scale in 4K are things like Unity and Steam, but those are a problem on Windows as well.
- scurvy 10y agoJava apps don't scale up. I use ThinkOrSwim (TD Ameritrade) for investing and the scaling is non existent. There are other Java tools necessary for sysadmin work that showed the same behavior. There was another thing that I can't remember now. Reserve the right to edit here. ;)
- brudgers 10y agoFor me, it's been patience, a learning exercise in X11, and a relative approach to 'running well'. On the other hand, out of the box Ubuntu [Unity] is pretty good after adjusting Settings->Display->Scaling. If not using <technology> is more important than other factors, then life is going to be closer to Arch than batteries included.
- matt_kantor 10y agoI use Gnome Shell (3.18) with a HiDPI display and everything works great out of the box (except for Steam). My only complaint is that I haven't figured out a way to have a different scaling factor for each screen, so when I attach multiple displays with significantly different pixel densities one of them ends up way too big/small.
- dudul 10y agoFor F sake! Why can't I get a 16Gb without this freaking touch screen? This "Customize and Buy" section is a joke, there is nothing to customize. So I get either a garbage laptop with 8Gb and 128Gb SSD and a decent battery, or I spit $1800 for a decent config with a stupid touch screen that will kill 3 hours of my battery life? Am I doing something wrong and just not finding the page to really customize the specs?
- __mp 10y agoI have the same problem. I don't even see an option to change a spec all I get is the 256GB/8GB/i5 base model in all the configurations. It's also not possible to change the keyboard layout for my region (CH/DE). http://i.imgur.com/CqYtvyH.png http://i.imgur.com/CqYtvyH.png
- zipfle 10y agoI really wish I could get 16gb RAM without paying for a touchscreen. It was possible to get an Ubuntu XPS configured that way as recently as two weeks ago. Should have pulled the trigger then.
- jerven 10y agoHave a look at the precision series on their small business site. I am getting one of those with 32gb for myself this Christmas.
- pjmlp 10y agoIs it actually available in Europe? Here in Germany it always displays "Product currently not available", regardless how many times I visited the web site.
- wazoox 10y agoI bought the previous version a few months ago, and it was particularly difficult to find on Dell website.
- dacm 10y agoWebsite is a complete mess and the page you refer to was probably about the previous model which was withdrawn. Anyway, after some search I managed to find it here in Spain and even order one (they have a nice discount these days due to Black Friday). This one should make it for you: http://www.dell.com/de/unternehmen/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?oc=bnx93611&model_id=xps-13-9360-laptop http://www.dell.com/de/unternehmen/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?o...
- sofaofthedamned 10y agoI've just ordered it with Ubuntu in the UK.
- charlieegan3 10y agoCan anyone compare the XPS developer editions with the Ubuntu Precision 5000 series laptops? (beyond the obvious hardward differences) (http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/precision-m5510-workstation http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/precision-m551...)
- deng 10y agoA word of warning: German magazine c't tests this laptop in its newest issue, using the pre-installed Ubuntu but also with Fedora 25 Workstation Edition (also with a Linux 4.9 development kernel), as well as Windows 10. The results regarding Linux compatibility are pretty bad: - The battery lasts for 13h under Linux, which is not too shabby. However, it lasts a whooping 22,5h with Windows 10. - The headphone port is very noisy with Linux. No noise whatsoever with Windows. - WiFi performance is dismal in Linux. No problem with Windows. - The HDMI port on the separately sold docking station does not work correctly with Linux. For a laptop that comes with Linux pre-installed, that's pretty disappointing.
- dest 10y agoIf it is a driver issue, it should improve other time, shouldn't it?
- g4k 10y agoI had the first XPS13 developer edition and it had so many driver issues. After one year things were better.
- oneeyedpigeon 10y agoTo be fair, "battery life is fantastically good on Linux, and stupendously good on Windows" doesn't exactly sound like a downside to me.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- lazarus101 10y agoIf you get this laptop don't make the same mistake I made (I have the Skylake version). Don't waste your money buying the Dell™ USB 3.0 Ultra HD Triple Video Docking Station D3100 (which is not even a real docking station cause it won't charge your laptop while connected). This thing uses a proprietary technology called Display Link and the support for Linux is just awful, there's a closed source driver but I wasn't able to connect more than one monitor and the Display Link process uses >30% CPU most of the time.
- puzzle 10y agoThis is so true. I have the Broadwell laptop, which is great, and the D3100 docking station, which is an utter piece of garbage, for all the reasons above. If you used or tried to use it for even just half an hour, you'd probably resort to even more inflammatory language. For me, it has become a very expensive USB hub. I gave up on it completely when I realized that its USB audio feature locked up the machine. Thankfully, I found that the XPS13 has a DisplayPort output that is capable of driving two daisy-chained monitors in addition to the internal screen (no mirroring!), even at 2560x1440 on each. I use it with two Dell 27" monitors. They must support DP1.2 for chaining to work. To be fair, there was a regression for hotplug detection from Ubuntu 15.10 to 16.04, but it was recently fixed.
- glandium 10y agoBeware. The Skylake XPS13 has a DP output, but the Kaby Lake XPS13 doesn't seem to.
- plg 10y agoYou've got $1000 to spend on a new laptop to run linux, power + portability are equal requirements (this is not a gaming laptop but coding, writing, internet'ing, etc) ... what do you buy? I'm personally partial to thinkpads but which one? New? Used?
- hellofunk 10y agoThe Netherlands link to Dell's pages does not show Ubuntu as an option, only Windows.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dacm 10y agoHere: http://www.dell.com/nl/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?oc=cnx93611&model_id=xps-13-9360-laptop http://www.dell.com/nl/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?oc=cnx93611&m...
- spapas82 10y agoHello, this is a little unrelated question to this specific laptop however since the thread has some traction I'll post it here to get some answers - please ignore it if you really find it not related to the topic. Now, I see that the XPS and most similar (good) laptops in the high-end price range have processors like i5-5xxxU, i7-7xxxU (for example XPS has i7-7500U) etc. Now, these processors may be i5 or i7 but, if you take a look at their real speed you'll see that they really, really slow: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/laptop.html https://www.cpubenchmark.net/laptop.html. the i7-7500U has a benchmark of 5,306 while, the high-end laptop CPUs have around 10,000! Also, my humble 2 year old desktop i5-4690K has 7,700 (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html https://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html)! So my question and general comment is has anybody noticed it? I haven't ever seen that remark on any reviews. The XPS is considered one of the best laptops in the market. Is it really so slow? A fast CPU is required for most common (developer) tasks i.e compiling, running VMs etc. Why nobody's mentioning that slow CPU speed? I understand that the laptop manufacturers prefer these CPUs because they have better battery life but shouldn't there be an option for people that require the extra speed and don't care that much about the battery? Please notice that this isn't an issue with XPS only, for example, the Lenovo Thinkpad T560 as an even slower CPU (http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t560/ http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t560/). From my market research I've concluded that the only laptops that do actually have good CPUs are the gaming laptops that have i7-xxxHQ and similar CPUs. If I am not mistaken, the CPU is not as important in gaming as the GPU -- while in a developer machine CPU is no1! (along with memory size of course)
- frik 10y agoMy 6 year old HP EliteBook has slightly better spec that my new HP EliteBook. The build quality is worse too, the newer one is just more lightweight and s bit thinner, but the battery is just 4h instead of 15h. I would go back to the old one, the only better thing is the screen resolution.
- gruez 10y agoSimple explanation: the i5 and i7 in question are 2 core, 4 threads, compared to your desktop's i5 which is 4 cores, 4 threads.
- gkafkg8y8 10y agoSince the post had mentioned what Linus uses... For the OS, Linus had been using Fedora Workstation at least until a year ago, last I heard. Linus doesn't like how Gnome deals with the 2016 XPS 13 Developer Edition either: http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-reveals-his-favorite-programming-laptop/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-reveals-his-favo... "...has the same resolution as my desktop, but apparently because the laptop screen is smaller, Gnome seems to decide on its own that I need an automatic scaling factor of 2, which blows up all the stupid things (window decorations, icons etc) to a ridiculous degree.". To fix he said: "You need to go to the shell and run: gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor 1." Here's what Linus had at home, desktop-wise, as of Jul 18, 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuS-3HSnpq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuS-3HSnpq4 But personally... My ultimate Frankenstein laptop in would be something similar to the dimensions of a MacBook Pro (2016), but with a few USB3 ports, memory card reader, headphone jack, function keys and full length touch bar atop the function keys. Then just max it out so I can run intense builds/tests, and emulate Windows, macOS, and Linux. As for the OS, for now I would use macOS. I like Pantheon in ElementaryOS, though. I like that Elementary tries to emulate what drew developers to macs 2006-2010 (prior to Mac App Store when you got apps by downloading them and didn't have to control-click to open unsigned ones and have both Launchpad and Appstore when before it was just the /Applications directory). I've used various Debian-based distros, but could be swayed to Fedora, maybe. If I had money, I'd have a nice desktop and have all of the coolest games. But I don't, so I have a thin factor laptop that just works and just big enough to read comfortably.
- sssparkkk 10y agoA word of warning for those interested in this machine or the 15 inch version: there are issues with the keyboard resulting in double characters when typing fast [1]. I have the precision 5510 (basically an XPS 15) and have the same issue, it's driving me nuts and Dell won't (can't?) do anything about it. Also, I'm currently on an old (1.2.0 instead of 1.2.14) bios firmware because they managed to introduce display flicker on on all but the highest brightness setting. In short: there are real problems with quality assurance at Dell - be ready for this if you decide to buy one of their laptops. [1] http://www.dell.com/support/Article/nl/nl/nlbsdt1/SLN297563/ZH http://www.dell.com/support/Article/nl/nl/nlbsdt1/SLN297563/... - here they suggest to adjust the key repeat/delay settings as a last resort (doesn't help on my 5510)
- AndyKelley 10y agoI have this same problem and it drives me nuts. I can type "asdf" and instead of the correct key responses, I get "asdsafdf". No joke. You can see that they've released 6+ BIOS updates to try to fix this but it's still broken. Further, control, shift, and alt are extremely sensitive on where you apply pressure. If you press one of these keys on the side or the corner, it doesn't recognize that. Super frustrating.
- sssparkkk 10y agoWith regard to the debounce issue, if you're running Ubuntu you can use dconf to set the slow keys timeout to a few ms (set slow keys to true as well) which will prevent basically all spurious extra keypresses. The theory being that your finger pressing a key sends a 'longer' signal than the bounce that sometimes occurs. A side affect on my machine is that controlling brightness using the keyboard no longer works (other fn combinations still work) and pressing the power button no longer brings up the logout/suspend/etc menu. Somehow these keys always fire a really short press signal :| So there's that.
- buro9 10y agoI have an i7 one, and I mostly love it. The issues though, they irk. - I can't get over the battery life difference, it actually tempts me back to Windows. - If you get the highest resolution screen I've found that not all programs in Linux handle the scaling correctly and if you don't scale the text is unreadably small. This is especially telling with notifications. - If you have DisplayPort requirements you're going to be in trouble, there are few to no DP dongles and the ones that exist don't pass through USB Type-C and so you need multiple dongles off of dongles because there is only 1 USB Type-C. - If you did go for the touchscreen version, the touchscreen doesn't seem to always work after waking from sleep. Aside from those things, the Ubuntu install went smoothly with everything being recognised immediately and no need to muck around with anything. Still... that battery. Makes me wonder whether I should switch to VMWare on Windows to run my Linux.
- rhodysurf 10y agoDid you try TLP and tuning with Powertop?
- buro9 10y agoPowertop I did not know about, just googled and it looks nice, will definitely investigate more. And the laptop is a few weeks old. I spent 24 hours on Windows just to see how it has changed as I haven't used Windows in about 5 years (used to be 50% Linux, 50% Windows, last 5 years 100% Linux). I didn't enjoy Windows, and sorely missed i3wm. But in it's favour, the scaling was perfect everywhere, the battery life really blew me away, and it the boot and shut down times were incredible. I was tempted, for a moment, to consider Hyper-V Linux on Windows 10 Ent, but just went Linux instead. Knowing it has that battery life under Windows means this temptation remains.
- ymse 10y ago`powertop --auto-tune` will turn all power-related settings to their most conservative settings. You can adjust them individually by running `powertop` interactively afterwards. I would love to see power estimates before and after that command! In my experience it increases battery time by 30-50%.
- Koshkin 10y agoWhat is it with this obsession with expensive first-tier brand computers? I have a much cheaper Asus 8/256GB ZenBook which runs Slackware/KDE absolutely perfectly and is a joy to use.
- elcct 10y agoI hope they'll keep the motherboard format, so that you could upgrade it to future cpus etc. as the "shell" and the screen is pretty good. It is very easy to replace a motherboard in XPS 13 - i did this to upgrade my XPS 9350 from 8GB to 16GB, without an issue and Dell has very detailed documentation how to do it.
- yoodenvranx 10y ago> developer edition I still wish there would be some options to get a display with a 4:3 aspect ratio. This way you could build small-ish display with still enough room to display a few more lines of code. Just imagine a MacBook Air with a display which is ~1 inch taller than the current version.
- dacox 10y agoIs there only a single configuration available in Canada? Some of the higher tier models sound really nice but the model available in Canada has exactly the same specs as my 5 year old Thinkpad.
- tbrock 10y agoI wish they would stop pushing the touch screen on the higher end models.
- simonsarris 10y agoPeople who use the XPS13 daily: keyboard review/commentary, please?
- AndyKelley 10y agoSadly it's the bane of my existence. See my other comment in this thread.
- _Robbie 10y agoI got the Developer Edition XPS 13 9360 two weeks ago. I have never encountered the repeated key press problem some people with the XPS 15 seem to have had. Compared with my old X1 Carbon, the keyboard on the XPS 13 is not very good. On the XPS 13 the keys are flat, there is very little key travel, and very little resistive force. The lack of resistive force means that your fingers experience much more force when the keys are pressed (similar to tying on a touchscreen's hard surface). From looking at the reviews of the XPS 13, it sounds like these lackluster keyboards are the norm for Ultrabooks. The `, and \ keys are very small, and the Page Up, Page Down, Home, and End keys are overloaded with the arrow keys. There is only one super key, which is on the left. Most of the time I use an external keyboard. If you only cared about the keyboard I would definitely recommend getting the X1 Carbon over the XPS 13.
- sakopov 10y agoI bought an XPS 15 a few weeks ago and couldn't be more happier. The build quality is great and an amazing step up from the flimsy XPS I bought 4 years ago. It's a beautiful machine. But, the entire case is a fingerprint magnet though. I recommend some dBrand skins. The "carbon fiber" top cover is the worst. You'll have to carry some cleaning cloth with you. The 1080p screen is awesome. Perfect colors. So good I started editing my photos on this laptop vs my high-end monitors. The keyboard is great. The track pad is great as well. I know there were some driver issues with the track pad. It seems like all is well now. Audio quality is terrible. My older XPS sounded amazing. The screen has very very thin bezel. So because of that the web cam is awkwardly positioned at the bottom of the screen just above the keyboard. So everyone gets to see your chin when you're video conferencing. The battery life is alright. If you want to squeeze more life out of the battery you'll have to start undervolting, which isn't too bad. I run Windows with a couple of VS instances and typically a bunch of Chrome tabs open. I get 6 hours with fairly heavy usage. I get about 9 hours with some undervolting techniques (You can find them online. Lot's of folks doing this). I really suggest the power companion Dell sells as an accessory to this laptop. It'll help get you through the work day. Goes without saying, If you want more battery life do not buy XPS with the 4k screen. No overheating issues. I haven't even heard the fans yet. So quite and cool so far. I also love the form factor. It doesn't feel like a 15'' laptop. Overall a great buy. It's not the MacBook Pro but i think it's getting there and it's definitely worth the money.
- neverminder 10y agoThey should have included at least two USB Type-C ports (or all of them as far as I'm concerned), also use them for charging. I have 2015 Chomebook Pixel for 1.5 years now and going back to a dedicated proprietary charger/charging port now seems so backwards. I am by all means no fan of Apple, but they sure had the right idea with going all USB Type-C. This laptop is not future-proof in my opinion.
- Brakenshire 10y agoIf I recall correctly, the XPS can charge either through USB-C, or through the dedicated port.
- neverminder 10y agoBut then why would they include a dedicated charging port? That doesn't make any sense.
- Brakenshire 10y agoIt's just an extra option, as I understand. It may also be because the hardware for USB charging in laptops is still emerging. Current chipsets seem to offer what they call 'USB-C charging', but not yet the higher power USB-PD spec. So perhaps in their judgment the offerings haven't developed enough for USB to be the sole mechanism.
- joesmo 10y agoSo they listened to developers demands from four years ago and didn't think to upgrade the specs to what would be needed now in 2016 but left them at 2012 levels? They must have a different definition of "listened" than the rest of the world.
- paulddraper 10y agoNot sure what "Developer edition" means. Seems more consumer then developer IMHO. Has a touchscreen but doesn't have Ethernet...
- mleonhard 10y agoNote that DELL is offering these with only 15W TDP CPUs: - i3-7100U https://ark.intel.com/products/95442 https://ark.intel.com/products/95442 - i5-7200U https://ark.intel.com/products/95443 https://ark.intel.com/products/95443 - i7-7500U https://ark.intel.com/products/95451 https://ark.intel.com/products/95451 The most important determiner of machine performance is how much power the CPU can use. CPUs turn watts into performance. A 45W CPU will deliver 3x the performance of a 15W CPU. I'm disappointed that reporters continue to leave out this crucial information in their reviews. Upgrading from an i3 to an i5 CPU gives you about 10% better power efficiency. Going to i7 gives another 10-15%. So for $650, you can upgrade to the i7 and get a disappointing 25% increase in performance. DELL is still charging an extra $400 for a 256 GB SSD. Last year, I bought the 2015 XPS 13 and immediately replaced the SSD with a $200 500GB Samsung 850 EVO. Then I wasted several hours using DELL's disgracefully buggy installer. Then it was 5 more hours spread over the next weeks to solve other problems like slow wifi, video decoding becoming slow after resume, and random freezes during resume. I still have problems with sound sometimes not working. Overall, the experience has been disappointing. It seems that DELL is releasing buggy laptops again this year. These laptops should be usable after a few months, once the Linux community has fixed the worst of DELL's software bugs. I wish DELL would put more resources behind their products and make them really good.
- elsen 10y ago> CPUs turn watts into performance. A 45W CPU will deliver 3x the performance of a 15W CPU. Can you provide a reference for this? I'm pretty sure a CPU turns watts into HEAT and PERFORMANCE, The 15W you're talking about is the TDP, which describe HEAT. This tells you about battery life mainly. Ghz is the unit of PERFORMANCE.
- dacox 10y agoIs there really only a single configuration available in Canada?