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As a practical matter how do you ensure that without a process to vet every single source that wishes to publish news? This makes it harder for someone to enter

by tux1968 10y ago

As a practical matter how do you ensure that without a process to vet every single source that wishes to publish news? This makes it harder for someone to enter the market and makes it possible for arbitrary or stilted rules to be imposed by the gatekeepers on a whim.

twright0 10y ago
In principle, that's definitely an issue. In practice, we don't have that problem at all (certainly not since Facebook fired their "trending" editorial department). Maybe we should try to optimize for solving the problem we have (fake news) and worry about the barriers to entry / rule-imposition by gatekeepers when they actually arise?
- tux1968 10y ago
  That's a very dangerous proposition, and one that makes state (or corporate) control of speech normalized. I personally don't think that should be the first option explored as a solution. Perhaps "real" news sources should spend more effort educating people on how they provide a superior product. Explain that all news sources aren't the same... make sure that sinks in to people. Of course that will mean they'll have to spend a little less time covering the Kardashian's. Anyway, I'd rather let adults be adults and not "protected" from bad words and bad ideas. Let the market place of ideas provide a forum for debate.
  - sprafa 10y ago
    Speech is already controlled by corporate interests, you're just not noticing it because the claims are its done "to fit your preferences". Whether that's true or not, or really is it to fit your preferences or to keep you longer using their services (do angry users use FB more often?) you can't tell. The algorithm to control speech is already in place, but the results are completely self serving for FB. What we're arguing for is to consider whether the current solution is a net benefit to society. False information and hate speech should be downgraded, even banned, when it's done to be shared with millions of people and it can lead to actions that are not beneficial to society in general. Let adults be adults is fine enough, but I don't understand why people should be allowed on disseminate verifiably false information. If it's the state control that bothers you, make a democratic system to flag it. It's sill better than allowing FB and Google to give you what their algorithms say keep you using their service.
  - Melk 10y ago
    It was the marketplace that made fake news possible. Traditional news always had its checks in place and they did a fairly good job upholding those. Even Google News follows quality guidelines[0]. It's no coincidence that fake news websites targeted Facebook because they knew there is no such vetting there. 0: https://support.google.com/news/publisher/answer/40787 https://support.google.com/news/publisher/answer/40787
ryuuchin 10y ago
Well traditional news media is peer reviewed to a certain extent and will publish corrections.
- tux1968 10y ago
  Then what is the problem? Why is it that grown adults have a hard time respecting the traditional news media more than random sources? That's the crux of the issue that needs to be explored rather than reactionary authoritarianism.
  - sprafa 10y ago
    Human psychology is easily manipulated, and you're seeing that happen right now. Whoever controls the information controls the masses. The Internet is being weaponised by every major large interest in the World - nation states, big oil, climate activists. Progressive folks got here first, but now everyone is using it, and frighteningly enough people like Steve Bannon are really really good at it. Take a look at Walter Lippmann.
    - tux1968 10y ago
      And why are you convinced this bid to control the news is not part of that weaponizing process; maybe you're inadvertently helping them. "They" may just be seeking cover under the idea that adults are too easily manipulated to trust their abilities to sort fact from fiction.
      - sprafa 10y ago
        Adults are easily manipulated.
  - up_so_floating 10y ago
    Peer review and corrections are indeed important, but many have lost respect for traditional news media due to the selective reporting that they feel pushes a certain narrative.

by tux1968 10y ago

twright0 10y ago

In principle, that's definitely an issue. In practice, we don't have that problem at all (certainly not since Facebook fired their "trending" editorial department). Maybe we should try to optimize for solving the problem we have (fake news) and worry about the barriers to entry / rule-imposition by gatekeepers when they actually arise?

tux1968 10y ago
That's a very dangerous proposition, and one that makes state (or corporate) control of speech normalized. I personally don't think that should be the first option explored as a solution. Perhaps "real" news sources should spend more effort educating people on how they provide a superior product. Explain that all news sources aren't the same... make sure that sinks in to people. Of course that will mean they'll have to spend a little less time covering the Kardashian's. Anyway, I'd rather let adults be adults and not "protected" from bad words and bad ideas. Let the market place of ideas provide a forum for debate.
- sprafa 10y ago
  Speech is already controlled by corporate interests, you're just not noticing it because the claims are its done "to fit your preferences". Whether that's true or not, or really is it to fit your preferences or to keep you longer using their services (do angry users use FB more often?) you can't tell. The algorithm to control speech is already in place, but the results are completely self serving for FB. What we're arguing for is to consider whether the current solution is a net benefit to society. False information and hate speech should be downgraded, even banned, when it's done to be shared with millions of people and it can lead to actions that are not beneficial to society in general. Let adults be adults is fine enough, but I don't understand why people should be allowed on disseminate verifiably false information. If it's the state control that bothers you, make a democratic system to flag it. It's sill better than allowing FB and Google to give you what their algorithms say keep you using their service.
- Melk 10y ago
  It was the marketplace that made fake news possible. Traditional news always had its checks in place and they did a fairly good job upholding those. Even Google News follows quality guidelines[0]. It's no coincidence that fake news websites targeted Facebook because they knew there is no such vetting there. 0: https://support.google.com/news/publisher/answer/40787 https://support.google.com/news/publisher/answer/40787

ryuuchin 10y ago

Well traditional news media is peer reviewed to a certain extent and will publish corrections.

tux1968 10y ago
Then what is the problem? Why is it that grown adults have a hard time respecting the traditional news media more than random sources? That's the crux of the issue that needs to be explored rather than reactionary authoritarianism.
- sprafa 10y ago
  Human psychology is easily manipulated, and you're seeing that happen right now. Whoever controls the information controls the masses. The Internet is being weaponised by every major large interest in the World - nation states, big oil, climate activists. Progressive folks got here first, but now everyone is using it, and frighteningly enough people like Steve Bannon are really really good at it. Take a look at Walter Lippmann.
  - tux1968 10y ago
    And why are you convinced this bid to control the news is not part of that weaponizing process; maybe you're inadvertently helping them. "They" may just be seeking cover under the idea that adults are too easily manipulated to trust their abilities to sort fact from fiction.
    - sprafa 10y ago
      Adults are easily manipulated.
- up_so_floating 10y ago
  Peer review and corrections are indeed important, but many have lost respect for traditional news media due to the selective reporting that they feel pushes a certain narrative.