7 ms·

No, sorry, the new MacBook pro sucks for hackers. It's great for prosumers who like gadgets and benefit from USB-C. Hackers do not benefit from a closed box wit

by sklivvz1971 10y ago

No, sorry, the new MacBook pro sucks for hackers. It's great for prosumers who like gadgets and benefit from USB-C. Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. I get it that prosumers like to think of themselves as "hackers", but ...that's just not how it works. Come on.

rayiner 10y ago
I think it's funny how signaling things like "expandable performance" and "deep key travel" get tied to being a hacker. The only thing you can upgrade even on an expandable laptop is memory and disk, which a hacker is probably maxing out to begin with. (Even expandable laptops are pretty limited by the chipsets these days in how much RAM they can handle). And given the high resale value of Macs, your typical Silicon Valley worker will probably spend more on lattes than on simply selling their Mac every couple of years and buying a new one.
- pmontra 10y ago
  HP Zbook first gen here: I can also replace CPU and GPU. I didn't do it and never will do but it's in the user manual. I upgraded RAM and swapped the DVD with a 1 TB SSD. The HD is still in there, auto shutdown after 5 secs. I use it for storing large files I don't need on the SSD but could be handy to be online sometimes, like raw videos from my camera. I'd like to replace the keyboard with one without the number pad. Possible in theory but there is no part that fits on the market. The only 15" laptops without number pad at the time were the Mac and I think the XPS, which was overheating. Maybe the problem with the latter is solved now.
milkytron 10y ago
In my own (possibly and probably inaccurate) opinion, I feel as though "hackers" aren't the people who need professional gear to do professional (or daily) tasks. They're the ones who can make the most out of as little equipment as possible. "See that toaster over there? It's been reprogrammed to automatically deposit my cat's food every fourth hour and have it warm as well." "That 2009 dinosaur of a smartphone sitting in the corner? It's an IP surveillance camera." "That first generation Xbox, it's powering the zoom feature of the Hubble Telescope." That last one might have been a bit of an exaggeration, but my point is that something isn't great because it's the latest. Something is great because someone increased it's value after using it or created something of higher value than the equipment used to create it. > Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. To address this point... some might. But not all will. And I certainly think that fewer will than the generations before. I really hope USB-C will be as great as these companies say it will, but until then I'll happily use my different ports that work as they are expected to.
- adinb 10y ago
  Actually, it was a 8192 processor MasPar at the University of Central Florida that did the image correction for the Hubble Telescope before corrective lenses were installed. The MasPars were fun to play with. ;) So you're not that far off on your XBox comment!
- nicky0 10y ago
  Well said. A hacker can get by with a Rasberry Pi with wires hanging off it, while the self proclaimed "pros" whine about memory and performance whilst demanding the latest slick design.
  - chrischen 10y ago
    I'm a hacker. I just don't hack on computers, so I'd rather not have to waste time hacking the computer for me to do other hacking on.
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    I find it weirder that people whining about that are usually not impaired by it for their dayjobs? I hear people shouting about wanting gpus and multicores and 16 gb and then that they are doing React dev on it as professional. What do you need that monster for when doing that dev? When I do 3d game dev, ML or image processing/recog I need something heavy (although... I really only need that locally for the first from that list). The rest I can do on mostly anything after 2009... Including React dev.
    - tracker1 10y ago
      For me (closer to react guy), I want an SSD and plenty of ram... a high end core i5 with integrated gpu will do... but in many corp environments there are only a handful of build options, so you get the uber machine or 8gb ram with spinning rust drive.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    I mean, I can "get by" on anything - an iPod Touch that runs Emacs 23, just to pick an example off my desk. When the chips are down, I'll get the job done with it. When the chips aren't down, and I have something more closely approaching my druthers with regard to the tools I use, I'm not going to go for the iPod.
ganeshkrishnan 10y ago
Plus the whole article sounds like an absurd mouthpiece for Apple. USB is standard, so now "hackers" are supposed to have an raging lust for standards on Apple hardware? "Don't worry, the dongles are USB standards too". I don't give a rats ass if dongles are standard are not. I am not lugging around dongles to connect my phone to my laptop. I use Ubuntu and One Plus 3 and USB 3.1 Type C works like a charm with 10 Gbps speed. I got 100 pieces of really good quality cables for around $2.5 each, used up around 25 around my house, office and car (removed link) I am not spending 1 bazillionton dollars on the same or worse quality Apple cables.
- nicky0 10y ago
  25 USB cables all for connecting your phone to your computer?
madeofpalk 10y ago
What does "hacker" even mean? I don't understand what this has to do with how suitable the MacBook Pro is. I'm a developer and this laptop is as great as any other, for me. But USB-C has very little to do with that. USB-C is convenient (until it's not) for anyone, regardless of 'hacker' or not.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- milkytron 10y ago
  From what I've understood, the definition of hacker is: A person who uses computers to gain unauthorized access to data. [1] So in this context, it's almost entirely controlled through software. One can be a hacker with hardware, but as of now I doubt USB C is going to make anyone as much of a hacker as a specific type of software might. And this new MacBook has very little to do with changing how real "hackers" might do things. [1] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/hacker https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/hacker I admit I'm guilt of misusing the word, but if I ever get into a serious conversation or argument I'd be sure to use the dictionary definition.
  - kobeya 10y ago
    That's not the original definition of the word, or what it means in this industry. Google "MIT hacker" for something closer to what the OP is talking about.
  - antfarm 10y ago
    The jargon file [http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html] is a more appropriate source of definition here. It defines the term "hacker" as follows: "hacker: n. [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. RFC1392, the Internet Users' Glossary, usefully amplifies this as: A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating hack value. 4. A person who is good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in ‘a Unix hacker’. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence password hacker, network hacker. The correct term for this sense is cracker. The term ‘hacker’ also tends to connote membership in the global community defined by the net (see the network. For discussion of some of the basics of this culture, see the How To Become A Hacker FAQ. It also implies that the person described is seen to subscribe to some version of the hacker ethic (see hacker ethic). It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new members are gladly welcome. There is thus a certain ego satisfaction to be had in identifying yourself as a hacker (but if you claim to be one and are not, you'll quickly be labeled bogus). See also geek, wannabee. This term seems to have been first adopted as a badge in the 1960s by the hacker culture surrounding TMRC and the MIT AI Lab. We have a report that it was used in a sense close to this entry's by teenage radio hams and electronics tinkerers in the mid-1950s."
coldtea 10y ago
>No, sorry, the new MacBook pro sucks for hackers. It's great for prosumers who like gadgets and benefit from USB-C. Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. You'd be surprised. Linus Torvalds, a hacker one would presume, used to have a MacBook Air as his primary laptop, and praise it as the best laptop ever made, saying that other companies have failed to produced something as good (though after 2014 he moved to a Chromebook). And the reasons he gave for praising it for are exactly what people think Apple has too much emphasis on: thinness, lightness and battery life. Of course that's a single data point (through for more data points you can go to any software conference, where Apple laptops usually dominate both the speakers and audience, even though they are less expandable and have less performance than some gaming/desktop-replacement laptops). An Apple laptop can fit well with some hackers, for at least two reasons, I think: First, tinkerer != hacker. A hacker can be a tinkerer, but it's not the same thing. There are people who love to hack on specific things, create new stuff etc, but could not care less about dealing with the hardware or customizing their window manager. A lot of hackers I know in fact tend to be quite minimalistic in those areas. Second, a hacker isn't necessarily all about raw performance and 8GB graphics cards. A lot of hacker types and great programmers in C or whatever can do wonders with very little hardware. Now, other kind of professionals, like 3D artists, number crunchers and such, might definitely want more GPU/RAM. But even for a lot of creative professionals, stable and "what we know" trumps "latest and greatest". Most professional music studios I know, for example, have 2 and 3 generation old setups, and never jump to the latest OS until 1-2 year after its out. In the photography world, were I dabble (and once did professionally), we have this notion of "measurbators" and "pixel peepers". They are those that are obsessed with ISO performance, megapixel count, sharpness, synthetic tests of camera gear and so on, but seldom create any output of any particular worth. I guess the same would be for PC people obsessed with benchmarks beyond a particular point, especially if their workflows don't need them. A hacker, in this regard, would be the opposite. This guy, is a hacker, photography wise: http://www.robgalbraith.com/multi_page8c1c.html?cid=7-6468-7844 http://www.robgalbraith.com/multi_page8c1c.html?cid=7-6468-7...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
zedadex 10y ago
> Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. Agreed, and well said. This one line concisely sums up the first and last word on this whole pitch.

rayiner 10y ago

I think it's funny how signaling things like "expandable performance" and "deep key travel" get tied to being a hacker. The only thing you can upgrade even on an expandable laptop is memory and disk, which a hacker is probably maxing out to begin with. (Even expandable laptops are pretty limited by the chipsets these days in how much RAM they can handle). And given the high resale value of Macs, your typical Silicon Valley worker will probably spend more on lattes than on simply selling their Mac every couple of years and buying a new one.

pmontra 10y ago
HP Zbook first gen here: I can also replace CPU and GPU. I didn't do it and never will do but it's in the user manual. I upgraded RAM and swapped the DVD with a 1 TB SSD. The HD is still in there, auto shutdown after 5 secs. I use it for storing large files I don't need on the SSD but could be handy to be online sometimes, like raw videos from my camera. I'd like to replace the keyboard with one without the number pad. Possible in theory but there is no part that fits on the market. The only 15" laptops without number pad at the time were the Mac and I think the XPS, which was overheating. Maybe the problem with the latter is solved now.

milkytron 10y ago

In my own (possibly and probably inaccurate) opinion, I feel as though "hackers" aren't the people who need professional gear to do professional (or daily) tasks. They're the ones who can make the most out of as little equipment as possible. "See that toaster over there? It's been reprogrammed to automatically deposit my cat's food every fourth hour and have it warm as well." "That 2009 dinosaur of a smartphone sitting in the corner? It's an IP surveillance camera." "That first generation Xbox, it's powering the zoom feature of the Hubble Telescope." That last one might have been a bit of an exaggeration, but my point is that something isn't great because it's the latest. Something is great because someone increased it's value after using it or created something of higher value than the equipment used to create it. > Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. To address this point... some might. But not all will. And I certainly think that fewer will than the generations before. I really hope USB-C will be as great as these companies say it will, but until then I'll happily use my different ports that work as they are expected to.

adinb 10y ago
Actually, it was a 8192 processor MasPar at the University of Central Florida that did the image correction for the Hubble Telescope before corrective lenses were installed. The MasPars were fun to play with. ;) So you're not that far off on your XBox comment!
nicky0 10y ago
Well said. A hacker can get by with a Rasberry Pi with wires hanging off it, while the self proclaimed "pros" whine about memory and performance whilst demanding the latest slick design.
- chrischen 10y ago
  I'm a hacker. I just don't hack on computers, so I'd rather not have to waste time hacking the computer for me to do other hacking on.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  I find it weirder that people whining about that are usually not impaired by it for their dayjobs? I hear people shouting about wanting gpus and multicores and 16 gb and then that they are doing React dev on it as professional. What do you need that monster for when doing that dev? When I do 3d game dev, ML or image processing/recog I need something heavy (although... I really only need that locally for the first from that list). The rest I can do on mostly anything after 2009... Including React dev.
  - tracker1 10y ago
    For me (closer to react guy), I want an SSD and plenty of ram... a high end core i5 with integrated gpu will do... but in many corp environments there are only a handful of build options, so you get the uber machine or 8gb ram with spinning rust drive.
- throwanem 10y ago
  I mean, I can "get by" on anything - an iPod Touch that runs Emacs 23, just to pick an example off my desk. When the chips are down, I'll get the job done with it. When the chips aren't down, and I have something more closely approaching my druthers with regard to the tools I use, I'm not going to go for the iPod.

ganeshkrishnan 10y ago

Plus the whole article sounds like an absurd mouthpiece for Apple. USB is standard, so now "hackers" are supposed to have an raging lust for standards on Apple hardware? "Don't worry, the dongles are USB standards too". I don't give a rats ass if dongles are standard are not. I am not lugging around dongles to connect my phone to my laptop. I use Ubuntu and One Plus 3 and USB 3.1 Type C works like a charm with 10 Gbps speed. I got 100 pieces of really good quality cables for around $2.5 each, used up around 25 around my house, office and car (removed link) I am not spending 1 bazillionton dollars on the same or worse quality Apple cables.

nicky0 10y ago
25 USB cables all for connecting your phone to your computer?

madeofpalk 10y ago

What does "hacker" even mean? I don't understand what this has to do with how suitable the MacBook Pro is. I'm a developer and this laptop is as great as any other, for me. But USB-C has very little to do with that. USB-C is convenient (until it's not) for anyone, regardless of 'hacker' or not.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
milkytron 10y ago
From what I've understood, the definition of hacker is: A person who uses computers to gain unauthorized access to data. [1] So in this context, it's almost entirely controlled through software. One can be a hacker with hardware, but as of now I doubt USB C is going to make anyone as much of a hacker as a specific type of software might. And this new MacBook has very little to do with changing how real "hackers" might do things. [1] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/hacker https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/hacker I admit I'm guilt of misusing the word, but if I ever get into a serious conversation or argument I'd be sure to use the dictionary definition.
- kobeya 10y ago
  That's not the original definition of the word, or what it means in this industry. Google "MIT hacker" for something closer to what the OP is talking about.
- antfarm 10y ago
  The jargon file [http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html] is a more appropriate source of definition here. It defines the term "hacker" as follows: "hacker: n. [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. RFC1392, the Internet Users' Glossary, usefully amplifies this as: A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating hack value. 4. A person who is good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in ‘a Unix hacker’. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence password hacker, network hacker. The correct term for this sense is cracker. The term ‘hacker’ also tends to connote membership in the global community defined by the net (see the network. For discussion of some of the basics of this culture, see the How To Become A Hacker FAQ. It also implies that the person described is seen to subscribe to some version of the hacker ethic (see hacker ethic). It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new members are gladly welcome. There is thus a certain ego satisfaction to be had in identifying yourself as a hacker (but if you claim to be one and are not, you'll quickly be labeled bogus). See also geek, wannabee. This term seems to have been first adopted as a badge in the 1960s by the hacker culture surrounding TMRC and the MIT AI Lab. We have a report that it was used in a sense close to this entry's by teenage radio hams and electronics tinkerers in the mid-1950s."

coldtea 10y ago

>No, sorry, the new MacBook pro sucks for hackers. It's great for prosumers who like gadgets and benefit from USB-C. Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. You'd be surprised. Linus Torvalds, a hacker one would presume, used to have a MacBook Air as his primary laptop, and praise it as the best laptop ever made, saying that other companies have failed to produced something as good (though after 2014 he moved to a Chromebook). And the reasons he gave for praising it for are exactly what people think Apple has too much emphasis on: thinness, lightness and battery life. Of course that's a single data point (through for more data points you can go to any software conference, where Apple laptops usually dominate both the speakers and audience, even though they are less expandable and have less performance than some gaming/desktop-replacement laptops). An Apple laptop can fit well with some hackers, for at least two reasons, I think: First, tinkerer != hacker. A hacker can be a tinkerer, but it's not the same thing. There are people who love to hack on specific things, create new stuff etc, but could not care less about dealing with the hardware or customizing their window manager. A lot of hackers I know in fact tend to be quite minimalistic in those areas. Second, a hacker isn't necessarily all about raw performance and 8GB graphics cards. A lot of hacker types and great programmers in C or whatever can do wonders with very little hardware. Now, other kind of professionals, like 3D artists, number crunchers and such, might definitely want more GPU/RAM. But even for a lot of creative professionals, stable and "what we know" trumps "latest and greatest". Most professional music studios I know, for example, have 2 and 3 generation old setups, and never jump to the latest OS until 1-2 year after its out. In the photography world, were I dabble (and once did professionally), we have this notion of "measurbators" and "pixel peepers". They are those that are obsessed with ISO performance, megapixel count, sharpness, synthetic tests of camera gear and so on, but seldom create any output of any particular worth. I guess the same would be for PC people obsessed with benchmarks beyond a particular point, especially if their workflows don't need them. A hacker, in this regard, would be the opposite. This guy, is a hacker, photography wise: http://www.robgalbraith.com/multi_page8c1c.html?cid=7-6468-7844 http://www.robgalbraith.com/multi_page8c1c.html?cid=7-6468-7...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

zedadex 10y ago

> Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance. Agreed, and well said. This one line concisely sums up the first and last word on this whole pitch.