3 ms·

I don't understand why so many people have difficulty accepting that the chemical environment can mediate appetite, and appetite is a key driver of food consump

by fdsaaf 10y ago

I don't understand why so many people have difficulty accepting that the chemical environment can mediate appetite, and appetite is a key driver of food consumption. Thermodynamics holds. What doesn't hold is the idea that you exist as a consciousness independent of chemical inputs.

candiodari 10y ago
But what you're saying sounds to me very different from what most people in this thread are saying. You're saying, if I understand correctly, that eating stuff with aspartame will make you eat more (what happens if you have the self control to either not do that, or eat something like a carrot that has very little calories ?). Most people in the thread here seem to be saying your body will find a way to use the same amount of energy, and store the same amount of energy, despite the energy intake being different. Anecdotally, I've lost over 10 kg while not caring about aspartame intake (in fact I think it probably went up).
- tripletmass 10y ago
  More that aspartame fooled no GI ever into thinking its job was done than that it makes you hungrier. The alkaline phosphatase blocking from it is also hampering phosphate metabolism you might've been using to switch gears, including regulating pH and coexistence with gut flora (detoxifying oligosaccharides etc.) Nice anecdotal going (if it was low density tissue; I should joke 'you uploaded your brain, what did you expect.')
greglindahl 10y ago
What you missed out on is feedback loops that affect your basal metabolism. So: eat less, your body decides it is starving and reduces your basal metabolism, you continue to eat less (better-than average willpower!), and... you gain weight. I'm a physicist, and I roll my eyes whenever anyone starts up with simplistic arguments about humans, food, and thermodynamics. Thermodynamics holds, but the system doesn't work the way you think it does.
- fdsaaf 10y ago
  Can your body just "reduce your basal metabolism"? Where are the energy savings? Is your body temperature lowered? I'm skeptical of the idea that differences in "metabolism" can account for different results arising from the same energy inputs.
  - DougWebb 10y ago
    Yes, your body temperature can be lowered, somewhat. Your temperature actually varies over a pretty wide range all of the time, with daily cycles and in response with your activities and things like fighting infections. But your average temperature can trend higher or lower, corresponding to a higher or lower basal metabolism. Other things that can happen when your metabolism slows down are that you get tired more often and more easily, your thought processes slow down, you sleep more. This happens to everyone as they age, and it can also happen from chronic stress, calorie restriction sufficient to trigger 'starvation mode', and anything else that causes your body to try to conserve energy for survival.
    - fdsaaf 10y ago
      What can be done to boost basal metabolism? A safer DNP? The current approach, diet and exercise, although it may work in individual cases, is not effective at the scale of public health.
  - greglindahl 10y ago
    Why, yes, it's a typical confounding situation with exercise and diets. As you probably know, it's difficult to do calorimetry on humans, but if I recall correctly it is partly lowered heat generation (which doesn't necessarily change the core temperature you measure with a thermometer) and moving around less.

by fdsaaf 10y ago

candiodari 10y ago

But what you're saying sounds to me very different from what most people in this thread are saying. You're saying, if I understand correctly, that eating stuff with aspartame will make you eat more (what happens if you have the self control to either not do that, or eat something like a carrot that has very little calories ?). Most people in the thread here seem to be saying your body will find a way to use the same amount of energy, and store the same amount of energy, despite the energy intake being different. Anecdotally, I've lost over 10 kg while not caring about aspartame intake (in fact I think it probably went up).

tripletmass 10y ago
More that aspartame fooled no GI ever into thinking its job was done than that it makes you hungrier. The alkaline phosphatase blocking from it is also hampering phosphate metabolism you might've been using to switch gears, including regulating pH and coexistence with gut flora (detoxifying oligosaccharides etc.) Nice anecdotal going (if it was low density tissue; I should joke 'you uploaded your brain, what did you expect.')

greglindahl 10y ago

What you missed out on is feedback loops that affect your basal metabolism. So: eat less, your body decides it is starving and reduces your basal metabolism, you continue to eat less (better-than average willpower!), and... you gain weight. I'm a physicist, and I roll my eyes whenever anyone starts up with simplistic arguments about humans, food, and thermodynamics. Thermodynamics holds, but the system doesn't work the way you think it does.

fdsaaf 10y ago
Can your body just "reduce your basal metabolism"? Where are the energy savings? Is your body temperature lowered? I'm skeptical of the idea that differences in "metabolism" can account for different results arising from the same energy inputs.
- DougWebb 10y ago
  Yes, your body temperature can be lowered, somewhat. Your temperature actually varies over a pretty wide range all of the time, with daily cycles and in response with your activities and things like fighting infections. But your average temperature can trend higher or lower, corresponding to a higher or lower basal metabolism. Other things that can happen when your metabolism slows down are that you get tired more often and more easily, your thought processes slow down, you sleep more. This happens to everyone as they age, and it can also happen from chronic stress, calorie restriction sufficient to trigger 'starvation mode', and anything else that causes your body to try to conserve energy for survival.
  - fdsaaf 10y ago
    What can be done to boost basal metabolism? A safer DNP? The current approach, diet and exercise, although it may work in individual cases, is not effective at the scale of public health.
- greglindahl 10y ago
  Why, yes, it's a typical confounding situation with exercise and diets. As you probably know, it's difficult to do calorimetry on humans, but if I recall correctly it is partly lowered heat generation (which doesn't necessarily change the core temperature you measure with a thermometer) and moving around less.