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I'm not too familiar with the German culture. Can someone explain to me what is this "German provincialism" that they talk about? Do Germans see themselves as p

I'm not too familiar with the German culture. Can someone explain to me what is this "German provincialism" that they talk about? Do Germans see themselves as provincial? Does anyone else see them as provincial?

jzwinck 10y ago
The thesis made semiclear on Page 2 is that DB previously was staid and very German, and in what would later become their own view, behind the times. > The bank's German clients were increasingly discovering the enterprising nature of international financial institutions and Deutsche had to be careful not to be left behind. This is expounded on Page 2, but basically it led to global expansion of the bank in search of growth beyond what was possible with boring old German domestic banking.
- rahrahrah 10y ago
  I shall then proceed to read page 2 :-)
allendoerfer 10y ago
There was a good documentary about the financial crisis and the banking crisis from the view of a former German banker called Master of the Universe [0] (has been on public television, but I was not able to find it from a quick search). In this documentary, the banker describes how the Germans were eager to learn from the US bankers in the late eighties and early nineties and how they did not question anything, but behaved like stupid sheep, who wanted to play with the big guys. They did not understand the products at all. The phenomenon that makes this "German provincialism" and not just provincialism is that you can see a pattern here. You can spot it in different areas: the BND and the NSA, the entertainment industry and Hollywood, politics and the US president (especially Obama). Germans have this schizophrenic trait, that on the one hand they think the US is totally nuts with all it's guns and broken systems and on the other hand very much care what the US does and what it thinks about them. [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3129484/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3129484/
- cnvogel 10y ago
  The full movie can be watched on the website of the BPB[x]: http://www.bpb.de/mediathek/225092/master-of-the-universe http://www.bpb.de/mediathek/225092/master-of-the-universe I really like the style that the main/only actor/narrator is filmed in an abandoned former bank's office buildung. [x] The Federal Agency for Civic Education, FACE (German: Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung, bpb) is a German federal government agency responsible for promoting civic education.
  - usrusr 10y ago
    I love BPB. Common sense would suggest that they must be the worst mouthpiece of government propaganda imaginable, but that expectation makes them so obscure that no political actor would ever consider it worthwhile influencing them. A very valuable arrangement, impossible to deliberately set up from scratch.
    - allendoerfer 10y ago
      They are also structured in a way, that they do not have the final say. E.g. teachers can book them. No booking, no influencing.
matt4077 10y ago
This may be specific to banking, and it's a bit of a hypothesis by the authors, but here's how I understand it: German banks have traditionally operated on the local level – mortgages, financing local businesses, sometimes a medium-sized manufacturer. The opposite model is anglo-saxon investment banking: m&a, hedge funds, HFT, leverage. There are cultural components to both these models as well. Under the first, a good banker spends his nights drinking too much beer with the small-town mayor. Investment bankers spend their nights doing coke with some actress in a Hong Kong rooftop bar. (both exaggerated for effect) Now, the story goes, Deutsche Bank felt so inferior when they watched Wall Street that their traditional, stable business was relegated to second class. They no longer cared about the low end (everyday) market. The two problems they ran into were (a) investment banking turned out to be a rather volatile business, and they no longer had the steady income stream to support it, and (b) they probably tried so hard play blank, without actually having the necessary structures/experience etc. Cargo-Cult investment banking basically. (Fargo-Cult?)
zuzun 10y ago
Have you ever heard of the German Mittelstand? [1] Family-owned companies, long-term and low-risk business strategies, social responsibility, regional ties... I think that's the kind of provincialism the article talks about. Not bad, just boring. Deutsche Bank wanted to become a global player. Doing investment banking in New York and London instead of giving a small loan to Herr Müller's crankshaft oil seal factory in Hintertupfingen. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand
- douche 10y ago
  Lol, Hinterupfingen. If my German isn't a complete wreck, I believe that implies sticking a digit up the derriere. Similar to our Bumfuck, USA
  - tscs37 10y ago
    Sadly, no. Hintertupfingen is merely a invented place which is most removed from the happenings in the rest of the world. Being from Hintertupfingen implies being somewhat of a Redneck or atleast uneducated of what happens in the world.
    - robk 10y ago
      You're both in agreement.
      - dublinclontarf 10y ago
        Penis.
- SyneRyder 10y ago
  If you have 25 minutes to spare, there's a great documentary called "Bavarian Fairytale" [1] about the Mittelstand. The core theme is how Bavaria survived the global financial crisis, but I think it does a good job of explaining the Mittelstand values through interviews with the people running the companies. (Making quality products / craftsmanship seems to be another core value.) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVFZl0s2Np0&t=3m46s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVFZl0s2Np0&t=3m46s

jzwinck 10y ago

The thesis made semiclear on Page 2 is that DB previously was staid and very German, and in what would later become their own view, behind the times. > The bank's German clients were increasingly discovering the enterprising nature of international financial institutions and Deutsche had to be careful not to be left behind. This is expounded on Page 2, but basically it led to global expansion of the bank in search of growth beyond what was possible with boring old German domestic banking.

rahrahrah 10y ago
I shall then proceed to read page 2 :-)

allendoerfer 10y ago

There was a good documentary about the financial crisis and the banking crisis from the view of a former German banker called Master of the Universe [0] (has been on public television, but I was not able to find it from a quick search). In this documentary, the banker describes how the Germans were eager to learn from the US bankers in the late eighties and early nineties and how they did not question anything, but behaved like stupid sheep, who wanted to play with the big guys. They did not understand the products at all. The phenomenon that makes this "German provincialism" and not just provincialism is that you can see a pattern here. You can spot it in different areas: the BND and the NSA, the entertainment industry and Hollywood, politics and the US president (especially Obama). Germans have this schizophrenic trait, that on the one hand they think the US is totally nuts with all it's guns and broken systems and on the other hand very much care what the US does and what it thinks about them. [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3129484/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3129484/

cnvogel 10y ago
The full movie can be watched on the website of the BPB[x]: http://www.bpb.de/mediathek/225092/master-of-the-universe http://www.bpb.de/mediathek/225092/master-of-the-universe I really like the style that the main/only actor/narrator is filmed in an abandoned former bank's office buildung. [x] The Federal Agency for Civic Education, FACE (German: Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung, bpb) is a German federal government agency responsible for promoting civic education.
- usrusr 10y ago
  I love BPB. Common sense would suggest that they must be the worst mouthpiece of government propaganda imaginable, but that expectation makes them so obscure that no political actor would ever consider it worthwhile influencing them. A very valuable arrangement, impossible to deliberately set up from scratch.
  - allendoerfer 10y ago
    They are also structured in a way, that they do not have the final say. E.g. teachers can book them. No booking, no influencing.

matt4077 10y ago

This may be specific to banking, and it's a bit of a hypothesis by the authors, but here's how I understand it: German banks have traditionally operated on the local level – mortgages, financing local businesses, sometimes a medium-sized manufacturer. The opposite model is anglo-saxon investment banking: m&a, hedge funds, HFT, leverage. There are cultural components to both these models as well. Under the first, a good banker spends his nights drinking too much beer with the small-town mayor. Investment bankers spend their nights doing coke with some actress in a Hong Kong rooftop bar. (both exaggerated for effect) Now, the story goes, Deutsche Bank felt so inferior when they watched Wall Street that their traditional, stable business was relegated to second class. They no longer cared about the low end (everyday) market. The two problems they ran into were (a) investment banking turned out to be a rather volatile business, and they no longer had the steady income stream to support it, and (b) they probably tried so hard play blank, without actually having the necessary structures/experience etc. Cargo-Cult investment banking basically. (Fargo-Cult?)

zuzun 10y ago

Have you ever heard of the German Mittelstand? [1] Family-owned companies, long-term and low-risk business strategies, social responsibility, regional ties... I think that's the kind of provincialism the article talks about. Not bad, just boring. Deutsche Bank wanted to become a global player. Doing investment banking in New York and London instead of giving a small loan to Herr Müller's crankshaft oil seal factory in Hintertupfingen. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand

douche 10y ago
Lol, Hinterupfingen. If my German isn't a complete wreck, I believe that implies sticking a digit up the derriere. Similar to our Bumfuck, USA
- tscs37 10y ago
  Sadly, no. Hintertupfingen is merely a invented place which is most removed from the happenings in the rest of the world. Being from Hintertupfingen implies being somewhat of a Redneck or atleast uneducated of what happens in the world.
  - robk 10y ago
    You're both in agreement.
    - dublinclontarf 10y ago
      Penis.
SyneRyder 10y ago
If you have 25 minutes to spare, there's a great documentary called "Bavarian Fairytale" [1] about the Mittelstand. The core theme is how Bavaria survived the global financial crisis, but I think it does a good job of explaining the Mittelstand values through interviews with the people running the companies. (Making quality products / craftsmanship seems to be another core value.) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVFZl0s2Np0&t=3m46s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVFZl0s2Np0&t=3m46s